Re: The Walking Dead: The Television Series
 

I feel pretty confident saying that the PC term these days is "black." I do see African American used in some literature still, especially with respect to census stuff, statistics, medical stuff, and sociology/psychology. But yeah.

Angrist, if you do come to the States...don't say "Negro." I mean, you might get away with it, it just depends if you are (a) sexy, (b) have a sexy accent.

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[Dutch accent]I'll try to remember it.[/Dutch accent]

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I very much enjoy this show. Great season. I was surprised to see how many of you guys have a problem with the writing or the acting. /shrug

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PAGAN! BURN HIM!!

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Well that was the season finale...

And now shall curl up in a corner until it returns...

Oh Game of Thrones is back in 2 weeks.. hmm

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Michonne! :)

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Pretty fantastic episode. I loved Rick's speech at the end. He's taken so much crap and put up with so much belly aching from all those people over the last two seasons.


EDIT:

My prediction for the second half of season 3: Daryl and Michonne are going to get together, then Merle is going to show up.

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Oh! I have a negro friend! Maybe he knows your negro friend?

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It's a good thing Lori convinced their negro friend to turn the truck around. My, what a mess that would have been had they kept on like that!

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Intresting episode. Like somebody else here (forgot who), I also expected lots of people to die. It looks like they got rid of all the boring characters (did they even have names?).

That chick with the sword and the zombie slaves is interesting (anyone who thought last episode was racist probably exploded this episode). Is it the one you sometimes talk about, a girl with a sword?

So we've seen another proof that they haven't read the Zombie Survival Guide. Why did they stay and fight that horde at the farm?? It was so incredibly pointless. Killing 100 zombies isn't going to make any difference, they should have known that. They should have packed the car with travel gear and just hit the road as soon as possible. Actually, those cars should already have been packed beforehand.

One last remark:
"Oh no, we ran out of fuel. We're in the middle of nowhere, with just forest around us! Nowhere to camp!!"
- "Hey would this tiny fort do?"

One last question: was that a prison at the end? Is that the setting for your beloved Governor episodes?

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I thought it was a pretty solid episode, too.
I like how it started right from the beginning, there was no sauntering back to the farm, it was just "Well son, I'm sorry to tell you that I ki- we've got to haul ass away from these zombies"

The only thing that got me as "meh" was when Herschel's daughter got taken by a zombie. It was easy to tell it was coming considering they were only looking left, and the camera was tighter on the right side; so I was all immediately "Oh, fuck. Well there's obviously an extra or two standing there or else they would have probably centred the shot, or at least have her look right."


I thought Herschel was going to get eaten. I'm pumped he didn't. If he does in the future, he does. I like the person of the character, and I think the actor plays him well. He feels like a real guy attempting to struggle with the world in a real way. For as much as he said he'd die on his farm (He very well might), and how he'd never leave - he wound up running like all the rest. Self-preservation.

I like how they all panicked and fled at some point. Fight or flight, but in the end flight took over for all of them. I like that; human evolution was based on flight. We don't survive by being the best hunter, we survive by being the smartest at living.

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Hershel is probably my favorite character on the show right now, to be honest.

He's had the best character development and is a good actor. He also seems to be the most complex character on there.

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Oh yeah, what was the deal with that helicopter in the opening??!?! Somebody luring Zombies to key locations?

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I think that wwas a Helicopter from season 1. Just showing a condensed version of what the zombies were up to and how they got to the farm.

That Helicopter passed by at some point in season 1. So it all adds up. No holes.

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Yeah that's what I figured later, just a random chopper that explained why the walkers would suddenly start migrating like that.

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It would have been funny if the Zombies went to a volcano and tossed a ring into it....

I'm pretty sure there was a helicopter that passed by in this season, no? But it must just be a coincidental helicopter used to explain how the herd of zombies got from the city to the farm.

Lori is such a cuuuuuuunt. I can't wait til she dies.

Anyway....this episode! This is the Rick I want to see! Not some soap opera shit. The Rick that is like, "listen up you bitches! I'm in charge, and if you don't like it, you can suck my Australian nutsack."

Also, those zombies really love snacking on extras. Who knew the characters we didn't see at all in Season 2 would end up being delicious zombie snacks. Yum....zombie snacks.

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Actually, I'll make a bold criticism, and you can all shit down my throat for being too judgmental or whatever:

This was the first episode since Season 1 Episode 1 that made me feel like I was watching a comic book show.

For some reason...this show had a comic book feel. Maybe it was the "blams" and all the headshots and exploding zombie heads. Maybe it was Michonne. Maybe it was the shot of the prison that made me think...."ahhhh, tv potential."

I don't know. But this episode struck a 'comic chord' for me.

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Robert Kirkman was a writer on this episode, and I saw a definite difference in pace and tone. Also, he is writing a lot of season 3. Makes me happy. :D

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So who's he again?

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Yeah, the basic idea behind zombie hordes (gets talked about in the comics) is that one zombie will notice something or hear a noise and start walking towards it. Other zombies see a zombie moving with purpose and will begin following it, under the assumption that the zombie knows where something devourable is. Then more zombies see a group of zombies and want in on whatever action that group involved in. By this point the original zombie has forgotten what had gotten it moving in the first place. There's just a whole bunch of zombies walking in one direction simply because that's what they're doing.

That's how you get a zombie herd.

I think the point of the helicopter was showing that something inconsequential and far away could totally screw a bunch of people over by inadvertently creating a zombie mob.

Also, Sean: that wasn't Hershel's daughter that got eaten, it was his neighbour Patricia.

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Oh, well that just shows how few shits I truly gave for that uninteresting walking Hamburger.
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While I was pumped for Rick to defend himself, I think he missed the crucial part of his story which was "I killed Shane in self defense" rather than making it seem like he just murdered him in cold blood which is what it seems like Lori/Carl thought. I know he said "I gave him every choice, but he just kept coming", but he explained it so horribly that it just seemed like all the others thought he flat-out-killed Shane, because he said he "just wanted it over with". Maybe I'm looking too far into that, and everyone is totally cool with it and won't slowly grow to resent him because of the fact he defended his life.

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I don't see how you can accuse some of us being negative for finding flaws with the show and then come out and admit you find one of the characters an "uninteresting hamburger."

That's exactly the flaws some of us have been pointing out!

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Yeah I also thought he didn't quite express himself well enough. But then I also remembered he was close to grabbing Shane's gun... If Shane really still wanted Rick dead, he wouldn't have let him come that close. So in a way Rick did "just want to get it over with", he didn't want to talk again and risk being killed later.


Curious: what was the effect on Rick's last speech on you? Because when I heard him rage, I thought "now the guy has lost it... is he going to be a dictator of these people???" I found the speech pretty stupid, making more enemies than friends.

But so far I've heard 2 people say they totally agreed with Rick. Your thoughts?

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I've never hid the fact I dislike a small handful of things related to specific characters, and when there's something I'm against, I voice my opinion. I just hate/dislike very few things with the show, which should be clear because I've hardly said any negative things that didn't involve me assuming plot-twists.

And I wasn't accusing anyone of "being negative." I just find/found little sense in watching a show (from your collective perspective) when all you guys (the people you are referring to) do is complain about it more than not. Nearly every post after every episode involved very little "I liked this weeks episode, I thought it was well-written, well-acted, and I was into it the whole time, I can't wait for next week's episode!" I'm not saying you guys dislike the show, or that there are not things you like about it - but the positives hardly get voiced; and I'm not the only person who has brought that up. I might be the only person you guys choose to focus on because I talk the most and reply to everything, but I'm not a one-man army, here.

While I dislike that chracter and didn't give a shit about her - did I rip it apart? Nah. I called her an " Uninteresting hamburger". Two negative words towards one character. That's all you've got on me to defend all of the hate spewed through 2 seasons? ;) One part of one sentence from one post by me is equivalent to 5 pages of "This show sucks. I was hoping it would be so much better."? :lol:

And if you dig back through my posts I have said negative things towards other shitty characters. Just not in every post -and it's not the entire structure of my message. In 90% of my posts it's been about how I liked the episodes, thought they were well-written, and was me either defending it from the people who rip it apart, or me assuming what will happen in the future based on minor events.
(I'll save you the time: I also said negative things about Carl from day one, or two, or three. It does however appear that someone's sprung for acting lessons for the kid. It doesn't seem as if they paid much for those lessons, though.)

(None of that was said with hate, rage, nor anger. I come across badly without inflection.
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I'm not sure how I feel about his speech yet. As a human man I can see where he'd come from - with all the anxiety of having your best friend treat you as if you've stolen your own wife and son away from him - and then pulling a gun on you forcing you to have to not only talk for your life, but to kill your best friend. I imagine that might put just a little bit of stress on a guy, zombies or no zombies.

I do however think he was correct in not telling everyone that he knew they were all infected - he waited until he knew for sure - which is the responsible thing to do. After he knew for sure he relayed the information; he just didn't want to spread panic. So dictator or not, there's still a good dude in there somewhere. I sort of think at this point he'll do whatever possible to keep his 'pack' alive. Every pack needs an Alpha Male in times of crisis. I think the part of him that wants to talk things out died when he killed Shane. I sort of think he's done with "This shit is fucked up", and moving more towards "Let's fuck this shit up".

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I think Rick's speech was a much needed reminder that all season Rick has been pulling for "keeping the group together," but dissenting voices have resulted in costly schisms. People who have disagreed with Rick - be it Hershel or Shane - have costed the lives of others.

The other side of said speech...well...let's just say that by killing Shane rick becomes a little bit more like Shane. I think it's pretty clear that sacrifices will be made. Now hopefully that is a theme they can continue to channel moving forward.


Anyway, I've said it before: I am critical of this show because I like it a lot, but I want to love it. This show has so much potential...and now we have a chance to see that potential with Season 3. Maybe. The show has had internal conflict with the writers, they've had to fire people, they had their budget slashed by AMC.

Let's talk about the budget and pacing. Clearly a large amount of the budget went to the first and last episode in Season 2. Also, the first and last episode were much more exciting than a number of the middling episodes. And IMO, the hiatus isn't helping.

I'm hoping the fact that this show has outpaced Breaking Bad and Mad Men in terms of viewer ratings that it will get some more money.

X-Factor: Apparently zombies are expensive. A lot of the prison stuff doesn't even do with zombies...I wonder if it will be cheaper to make TV episodes that pit humans against humans, instead of having to do all the fancy make up and stuff for the zombies.

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One thing to keep in mind with this series is that there are no perfect people... no heroes. Everyone is keeping together because doing so is the best chance they have of surviving, not to help someone else. If the series follows the book more closely going forward, and I believe it will after hearing Kirkman's interview on the Talking Dead, you'll find many more reasons to dislike Rick at times, and Rick admits to many... many mistakes along the way.

This story is just getting started...

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Yup, yup. Rick is a leader...but being a leader doesn't default you to "good guy." The prison is still my favorite part of the comics, by far. It's a brilliant story, from start to finish, and the set-ups are killer. I have nothing but high hopes and high expectations for what lies ahead.

Unlike the farm, I look forward to seeing 13 episodes dedicated to the prison. I could even see it extended beyond that, depending on how good the stories go.

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So does that mean there won't be many zombies in season 3?

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There is something coming that is far worse than zombies...

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Zombies with lasers?

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Zombies with bees in their mouth, so every time they walk towards you and moan bees fly out of it?!



What can be worse than zombies? Wait... More monologues.

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Oh by the way... This "everybody's infected" thing sure explains why everybody could cover themselves in zombie gore or stand 1 meter from a zombie being smashed to pieces.

But I still think it's idiotic.

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Conversation's sake - and curiosity; why do you think that everyone being infected is idiotic?

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Covering yourself in zombie gore is idiotic. Everybody being infected doesn't seem to matter at all.

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They were covering themselves in zombie gore to smell like a zombie. Makes sense to me.

I agree that everyone being infected really doesn't have any bearing on the story at all. I'm not sure if they expected that to be a "big reveal" or not, but it really doesn't change anything, it's just kind of a neat fact about the virus. Maybe it will mean something later on, like creating a "cure" virus to kill the zombies.

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Not to harp, but this is one area of the story that I think the books handled much better. There is no "infection" in the books. No one knows why people turn into zombies. They just do. This makes the reveal much more dramatic, IMO, because there is no way out... no way to avoid your fate. And because there is no infection, there is no cure. The reveal is the realization that they are living in a new horrific world with no happy ending. THEY are The Walking Dead, not the zombies.

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That episode was terrible. The whole "hacking up the dead guy" should have stayed in the comic book. That shit belongs in comedy....and in fact it was used as a comedy piece in the BBC miniseries Dead Set.

Shameless plug, again, I already plugged this and I wish you people would watch it because it's good:





Anyway, my only question, and I chose not to nitpick about this before because you guys don't like when I complain: if Rick knew that dead people come back as zombies, why was he sitting pretty mindlessly on top of Shane. It doesn't matter though. He mentioned he wasn't sure he believed the CDC guy anyway.

Along with what Prof S said, the fact that dead people come back to life as zombies is used in the comic to set the tone. In the comic book, Rick goes well out of his way to kill a zombie that was already killed earlier in the comic. It sort of sets the tone and explores the nature of Rick's character. The TV show reversed the role of the situation, and IMO diminished the tone a bit.

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A) His son was right behind him and he had just murdered his best friend. I doubt "Hold on a moment, son - I've got to decapitate the warm corpse of my former best friend before he re-animates and attempts to kills us both. I'm just assuming this will happen at this point, though. But you've got to be sure, even though I have no proof yet!" would be on the tip of his tongue opposed to "Holy fuck, I need to make sure my son wasn't emotionally scarred from possibly seeing his father stab his best friend."

B) But really You argued against yourself the best:

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To those who know: How was the scene of them hacking that dead guy up in the comics a comedy bit?

I think the scene was handled well in the show, I can't imagine how something that heavy could have some "hahas" in there, especially when the tone of the show is clearly not a comedy. Granted I never saw the "first incarnation" of that scene when it was...comedy - but the fact they went over the emotional distress they were having with the fact the people they're murdering and the corpse they're about to desecrate was once a real person just like them was good enough, if not better than any type of comedy I could imagine - especially when placed into this show; which has had very little to no intentional laughs in it.

When I think back to that scene I don't think "Fuck, I wish I was laughing right now at them chopping this guy up", I think "Fuck, hacking up a dead human being and putting his guts all over my body would be fucking hard as shit to have to cope with doing."
Maybe that's just because I can't see the comedy in the show, because it's not a comedy. Maybe the comic was a comedy, or had comedy. Maybe the show isn't intended to have any, and is supposed to be a juxtaposition of the comic - like a more hardcore 'real world' version; especially considering from what I've heard from those who've read it - is that a lot of key things in this are entirely different, if not the exact opposite of what they were in the comics. But I didn't read the comic. I just watch the show. Maybe comedy is what the zombie-infested world is missing. Maybe that's the cure for the disease, and they're all infected because nobody is laughing, right?! Solved it. Comedy


Edit: I've also never heard of Dead Set, but I'll try to check it out this weekend. I am intrigued.

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No no no, I should have clarified my original statement, because I think I caused some confusion.

The scene where they hack up the zombie in the comics wasn't comedic at all. I need to go dust off my comic, but I believe it was just Rick and Glenn in the comic.

What I'm saying is that the whole "hacking up the dead guy/zombie" scene is ultra violent and kind of absurd. It's the type of violence that is very difficult to make work in live action because it's comic violence.

My opinion is that if you are going to take something that violent, and that absurd....you need to put a comedic spin on it to juxtapose the violence. Here are some contexts where a scene like that might work:

Real Life - yeah, I have friends who are going on to be doctors, so they take real college-level anatomy where you dissect donated cadavers. Everyone I know who has taken these classes has a sense of humor about, and strongly dissociates.

In Horror, by the villain - I don't think anyone would have any questions or concerns if Leatherface or Jason cut somebody up.

Comic Violence - One reason why Sin City has not budged from my top 5 comic films is because it is one of the few comic films that actually feels like a comic book. And because of that....scenes like this work:



Comedy - If you are going to show a bunch of characters chopping somebody up, juxtapose that shit with some dark comedy. Dead Set did that brilliantly


My issue with the scene in the Walking Dead where they were cutting up the zombie is that it was not properly juxtaposed with comedy, and it wasn't comic enough. Now....maybe if you had REALLY GOOD ACTORS you could make that scene work in a realistic context....but I just felt like the scene was uncomfortable, and unintentionally funny because it was awkward.

The scene wasn't funny at all in the comic. It was pretty dark. It just didn't work as a dark scene on the show because it was awkward and unintentionally funny. To fix that issue, you can do what I cited in my above examples: juxtapose with humor, or be comic-like.

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I'm trying to dig into my ultra-violence memory bank. I can think of realistic examples, like the Beach Scene from Saving Private Ryan. Very serious, based on a historic and real event....so that's an example where guts spilling out worked on a realistic level.

But then you have movies like Kill Bill, where Uma Thurman is dismembering people and limbs are flying everywhere. The whole scene in Vol. 1 is juxtaposed with various film techniques, and it's actually darkly comedic as well.

I'm just saying...I think the writers/director on the Walking Dead are supposed to be doing their job, and they are not. If you are adapting a TV show, you need to decide what stuff from the comic book works on live action TV, and you need to decide what does not work. The scene where they were axing up the zombie did not work, because the acting was not up to par, and it was awkward and uncomfortable. They could have simply fixed the issue by throwing in some dark humor or by leaving the scene out altogether.

I'm of the opinion that the scene was awkward, and it was funny not because it was intentionally funny, but because the acting was so bad and it was so awkward. That's not a nice criticism I'm making either.

Edit: There is a reason why comedy and horror are best friends. 99% of horror movies feature some form of humor, be it dark social commentary, or over-the-top, B-movie gore.