And this being said, the argument thickens...

Re: Zelda
 

It doesn't appear that you even know why you are this upset. Even now, I'm still looking for a substantial point throughout this topic. I can't find any, but believe you are just another gamer caught in the web uncertainty; it's clear you have mixed priorities.

"Do I want a great Zelda game, or will I prefer if Nintendo made a wicked realistic 3D engine, oozing with adult content, slap the Zelda logo on it and sell it to me?" While reading this topic, all I hear echoing is: "Game Is Noting, Image is everything!"

Sure, you'll probably deny it when/if you reply, but hey man, all the evidence is right here, and I'll be kind enough to point it out to you and everyone else.

For the record: I could easily prove my point by stating the pure fact that your are basically condemning the entire worth of a game(and possible ownership of GC) on it's visual style. There's is no reference at all to it's gameplay(nor can there be), so the basic point of this thread really has NOTHING to do with Zelda at all, but it's more about a pathetic CRAVE/LUST for a "mature image"(whatever that is). Still, somehow, I bet you wouldn't except that, so I'll have to go on a little further.

See! Your very first sentence already sets to tone for what will turn out to be a shallow rant condemning a game you haven't played, because it's not "mature-looking" enough.

From here on, it's pretty straightforward. As I mentioned...the echoes!

"Game Is Nothing, Image Is Everything!"

"Game Is Nothing, Image Is Everything!"

Game Is No...wait a sec, I like this one, it deserves a different reply.... So let me get this straight. Do it with another game, and it's automatically innovative. Do it with Zelda, and that's "jeopardizing" it? I would think Zelda needs that bit of innovation, especially since the last to games were the same exact stlye/look. What do I know anyhow, huh? :unsure:


"Game Is Nothing, Image Is Everything!"


This is especially disturbing. That's because, more than anything else, Zelda is known for being one of Nintendo's most greatest games, one of the world's greatest, in fact. Yet, here you are, depleting the game of all it's worth and achievements, only so you can fit it in a pathetic category of being "mature" or not. That's a scary example of just how the general consensus is beginning to look among many forums these days. A game's achievements are overlooked, and all that matters in the end, is if it's mature or not. Sickening! :Puke:

You know what... I think I'll just stop here. There's no need to continue, especially after that last portion. Scary stuff man...:(

PS: Sometimes I question myself whether or not most gamers know how unhealthy their "new" attitudes are. When gaming has seen it's best days(not speaking profit wise), when SNES and Genesis were around, that's where tons of awesome games were out there, and we enjoyed every last one of them. That was also when we didn't concern ourselves with this kiddy-mature crap. If this worsens, someday gaming will be crippled, waiting for another Nintendo to save it like 20 yrs ago. Only this time, it will wait in vain.

(Think I'm taking this to serious? Maybe I am.. or maybe one day we'll regret we all didn't)

Well, I've heard various theories before, and they all could be possible (and maybe that's what Miyamoto meant or whoever it was I remember hearing say like he did it because it fit right with his idea for the game or whatever...), but making a game with both cel shaded and realistic graphics would mean you'd need like two seperate graphic engines or something.. I'm not game development expert or nutin, but wouldn't that take a good bit to make? A good bit-o-time?

Neat idea though... but meh *shrugs*

If for some reason Zelda's sales are lower than expected, and they think it's from the cel shading or something, they'll probably make the next one realistic... hopefully there will be at least 2 zeldas on gamecube in it's life time (and I'm not talking about that "They are making two different zeldas!" rumor, I just mean like OoT to MM on N64...)... yep

I don't consider Zelda a "mature" game. You're a little elf boy in tights [or in some cases kilt style :eek:] whacking chickens with a sword. Sure the games create a great sense of feeling and whatnot but there's still a lot of comical stuff in it. Miyamoto never intended the series to be "mature". Link is a mischievous boy. Always was. Always will be. Going into various houses and smashing the residents' pots and bombing their walls. Seemed like an elf version of Dennis the Menace.

Then again the "mature" games aren't mature anyway. "Dude, let's go shoot zombies, run over people in cars, and save the world from aliens...again." Violence and realisim doesn't have anything to do with the maturity level of a game. It's the subject matter and plot that makes something "mature". Take the anime "Metropolis" for example. You have astroboy looking cute people yet there's polictical scandels, murders, the quest of one's self, how the world is changing, and a look at society in general.

The people I know who play "mature" games have the lowest possible maturity level imaginable. Take the guy who reviewed all the GameCube games in Aza's topic. He seemed like a total idiot.




I forget the actual point I'm trying to make here so let's just say the above is food for thoguht.

You wear a tunic, which was the common choice for clothing during the time. It was either that, or a robe. Often times during early parts of human history men have worn clothes that would now be considered feminine. The dress for example was at first worn by men and women.

I agree that the game isn't meant to be mature. But the fact that he's similar to an elf and wears a tunic doesn't make him kiddy.

Err.. this is also just food for thought... Blowing steam out of my butt...

(Butt steam for food :D)

In the instruction booklets for the older games he's not wearing anything on his legs...

The whole cel-shaded Zelda thing is a double sided coin.

On the one hand, it has not fared well in terms of asthetic popularity. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." is something that has not been applied here it seems. However, if Nintendo provides an extremley succesful international marketing campaign, they may yet swing back the nay-sayers. Winter 2002 has the potential to be like Winter 1998: A Christmas in which other formats have no killer titles, where as Nintendo has a cavalcade of AAA software. If Nintendo can achive this every year, then we might see SONY re-evaluated as the industry leader.

On the other side, it may be videogame art at it's purest: Made for gamers, not consumers. It is a pity that the "realistic" Zelda asthetic was abandoned, but it may be that the folly of Miyamoto is the oddesey of the art of videogames that we have been crying out for since we completed The Legend Of Zelda Ocarina Of Time: The greatest videogame created to date.

Whatever happens, I'm going to be hacking and slashing in the equivelant of The Great Deku Tree on December 25. I hope that many others will join me.

Re: Re: Zelda
 

How can you tell me or anyone else what their priorities are? If you hate the "new" attitude of gamers that's good for you, you're free to feel however you want. If you think image is nothing, and aren't conscerned about anything except gaming then go ahead and feel that way, but don't tell others that their way of looking at video games is wrong, or that yours is completely superior.

Why do you speak as if you're the messiah spreading the gospel of truth. Everyone likes different aspects of video games. Some like the graphics, some are focused on the gameplay, others on the storyline, and a few like replay value. There are people that like certain parts better than others, but you can't just tell people that your way of thinking is right, and others are mislead or wrong.

It's not like I am kiddygamephobic or anything. I've played many kiddy games in my day, and I plan to pick up many more. If Kirby turned into another conker who drank, cussed, and used an assault rifle I would also be dissapointed. Why? Not because I hate mature games, but because I've grown up with the character, and don't want to see him drastically change.

You do know you're talking to someone that owns a Genesis and SNES, and spends more time on them then his latest systems. Maybe the reason why you weren't concerned about the whole "kiddy-mature crap" was because you were a kid back then. This kiddy-mature crap isn't exclusive to video games, it's in everything. Like teddy bears for example. Yes some people still keep their teddy bears, but others feel that they have outgrown them. Does that mean that the people who have outgrown them are stupid, ignorant, or lost the meaning of truely having fun? No. Is the teddy bear industry also going to face this doomsday that you have created in your head when talking about the video game industry?

:eek: Now that's a mature game ;) :D

Guys whoever says cell-shading sucks obivoiusly didn't play Jet Gring Radio for Dreamcast.

Can't wait for Jet Set Radio Future...

Apparently, Jin only cares about "eye candy." :confused:

I never said that it was the only thing I cared about. I love classic games, not for their looks, but for their gameplay. Of course gameplay is more important than graphics, but graphics and presentation are also an important part of any game. Also, there's nothing wrong with cell-shading, it's just that I feel it isn't right for the series. Like I don't think it would be right for series like Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, or Gran Turismo.

::Expects to get a dozen posts telling me that it doesn't matter what I think is right for the series, but what Miyamoto thinks is right for the series::

Wasn't he the one that decided to go cartridge based on the N64, and launch the GC as a purple console? He isn't God, he makes mistakes too.

Let's just say Link's looking better than Mario these days...

I disussed Jin's issue with Mr. Miyamoto a couple days ago and this is what he wanted me to tell Jin (excuse any gramactical errors, translating isn't my best yet).

Miyamoto says modern game designers have fallen into a trap of designing games that are more focused on exploiting a console's hardware capabilities than telling a story.

"Tell Jin I don't see that there is much of a need to continue to progress in the direction of even more realistic and beautiful graphics," Miyamoto said. "We really need to move more toward creativity, and new ideas."

"In the game industry we see this trend to create the most realistic games," he said. "I see that as kind of limiting what the game creators are able to do and limiting their freedom."

Well, there's two cents worth from the big cheese.