Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

If you're so bored, read my post on his stance on the economy and Fannie and Freddie. Who do you think is right, and who is the sell-out?

And honestly, if you want to post films by Robert Greenwald as fair arguments in an election, I don't see what arguments anyone could make that would sway you. He's a propogandist, pure and simple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Greenwald

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Name an Obama vs Mccain poll that existed before Bush was a factor. You can't, because there isn't one. I put very clearly that that it hurt him initially, not that I think it makes a huge difference now.

They supported him because he was misleading about it in the first place. When the truth came out, where did his approval rating go?

Do you know how long it took him to admit he was wrong? Initially yes I can see how he may have thought they were there, but he was still barking the WMD thing years after we had entered and had nothing to show for it. Did Bush appologize about putting us into that situation? If he did I haven't seen it yet.

Like I said earlier, I don't trust polls t begin with. I think they're only there to get ratings. However, I don't think that the drop is what caused the shift. Yes its big news, yes it happend around the same time, but no I don't think it had a direct effect. Why would a Mccain supporter go back to voting for Obama because of this event? If you can give me a good answer without directly indirectly linking it to Bush, then maybe I will be able to see why. If you can't make an answer without at least some link, then that explains why there's articles like the one I posted above.

I just don't see the answer other than people thinking the bush whitehouse is screwing up, and they're worried Mccain would take the torch. Thus the reason for that article.

I read it, I just didn't have much of an opinion on it. But with info like that, it just further begs the question to why the polls would suddenly go into Obama's favor if it had a lot to do with this event?

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

He wasn't misleading anyone in the first place. He was misleading everyone in the SECOND place. :)

To my knowledge he has never admitted to being wrong. thats a reason why i dislike him as a President. Then again I can't remember Obama ever admitting he's been wrong about anything either...

They're called the undecided. Its the same group that went up after the Democratic covention, and the same group that switched after the Republican one, except that one seemed to last far longer. Now the financial industry goes in the tank, and the same day the polls switch after 2-3 of McCain beating Obama in the polls, and you think its Palin and Bush and not an association with Republicans who have been made synonymous with Big Business?

If you can't see this, I can't help you see it any clearer. You'll believe what you want to, regardless.

I agree that people do feel that way, but that has nothing to do with the swing in the polls recently, and thats what you were referring to when you brought up the polling change. There is no evidence that it has had any impact in the election recently. NONE. You can make it whatever you like, but it has no relation to the information we have to base our opinions.

Because information like this requires people to read and be informed on more than what political ads say. And for this to not inform your opinion on any level, I don;t know what to say to that. I call it willful ignorance.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

NEWS ALERT!

The polls mean nothing! The person with the most votes might not win!

Looks like Obama has the advantage on the electoral map...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/...map/index.html

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Jason, any opinion on the info about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that I posted above?

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Well it does sound like those companies were using some extremely unethical practices. Maybe Mcain was on to something, that being said, this dosent change my opinion that the terrible performance of the economy is the fault of the Republicans.

And any comment on that political map I just posted?

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Really? What about the fact that the top three recipients of Fannie and Freddie contributions were all democratic presidential nominees, including Barack Obama? Still all the Republicans fault? Even so, doesn't that show McCain as an individual who is a lot more qualified to recognize economic crisis than Barack?

Sure, I was aware. I'm also aware thet the electoral maps can change as well as the polls can. Its just a different kind of polling. Your biggest concern should be the historical fact that a considerable percentage of voters who poll for African American candidates do not vote for them. I think Obama needs a 5-10% lead to win.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

This arguement holds no relevance because we have never had a legitimate black candidate for president. Nobody voted for Al Sharpton because they knew he had no chance. This election is different, all bets are off.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

I was talking about elections in general. Even Republican candiates like Michael Steel had the same thing happen. And all bets are never off, especially when it comes to elections. Historical trends always play a part.

BTW, what about my first question in that post you quoted? And if the bad economy is solely the responsibility of the Republicans, then I guess they're also solely responsible fo the 410 point gain in the stock market today?

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

a 410 point gain dosent make up for years and years of a bad economy. Its a start, but it could drop 400 points tomorrow...

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

I don't see how you can blame the republican party for the current economic downturn. It's an inevitable outcome that has been ignored for over half a century. It's a shame that the feds are using tax dollars to bail out wallstreet, cuz it's only postponing the harsh truth of our situation. Now is the time to stock up(out of practical precaution) on some delicious non-perishables cuz winter ain't kind when combined with a condemned currency.
got a question for you professor S
What good is a relative rebound in the market if it's only creating false security for a short time?

yo read this

another interesting article

This is the economic tonkin bay. justification for a federal takeover and set future of economic enslavement never before seen in the western world. yeeha

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Seth, you mistook my argument. I never said a short term upswing was an answer to the crisis, I was commenting on how foolish it is to think that only one party is responsible for it.

As for the root of the issue, I believe it is because of the overturn of previous regulation that separated wallstreet from the mortgage industry. Mortagge debt should never have been treated like stocks, but always more like bonds, which are much more stable and not prone to the types of speculation that takes place in the market.

But in the end, every level is at fault for this from the buyer all the way to the Fed who should have raised interest rates YEARS ago to stabalize the dollar and make money more expensive to borrow. Increased risk is the best regulation against leveraging one's self to the point of bankruptcy.

It needed be a consipracy, Seth. Wallstreet got greedy and got in the pockets of enough legislators to repeal regulations that helped stabalize housing.

And Jason, you still ignore my points and have fabricated your own. You say the economy has been terrible for the last eight years? That ignores the last eight years. You cannot replace our reality for one that fits with your talking points.

And by the way, your still not responding to large chunks of my posts where I directly ask you questions.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

you say conspiracy. ok. Why didn't the feds take action sooner? Are you saying that these turn of events were unpredictable? Was this outcome the only possible scenario for those legislator's in Washington? There's power consolidation happening because of this, and I don't believe that it wasn't at least hoped for. Do you agree with the bailout prof?

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Not in the least. Leaning toward free markets, I believe that businesses should be free to succeed and free to fail. But also, there is a lot of retirement and pension money holed up in these investment organizations, so allowing them to fail would hurt a lot of people. Its a double edged sword.

The bottom line is that the deregulation that allowed this to happen took place in the 70's and events over multiple administrations and cultural time periods spanning decades.

Just because something is predictable does not make it intentional. Weather is predictable, but there is no weather machine controlled by the Freemasons that created Katrina. Greedy people over time and the betterment of their own pocket created this situation because they needed to cook books to keep their jobs or even worse, justify bonuses. To say that this has been planned over the last few decades honestly gives governing bodies far too much credit. It also begs the question of why more malicious action wasn't done sooner by these muysterious forces during the OPEC oil crisis, the new Deal or the recession of the early 90's. Why now and not then? This attitude assume that all capitalist and socialist events are completely under the control of forces so banal we cannot ever fully realize or be consumed by wild, sulferous flame.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

I don;t know whats funnier: The look on Clinton's face used for this pick, or that the pic came from a "legitimate" news source...

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

I knew she looked fami..err.. *cough* Which news source was that from? lol

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Why, FoxNews of course...:mischief:

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Lol, I could have suspected it was Fox. They try to be "Neutral" on things, but end up always sounding extremely biased one way or the other.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

hah, I just think its funny that 9 times out of 10 these girls that are all into god and religious and shit are always the sluts. Palin preaches abstinence and all that and her own 16 year old daughter goes and gets pregnat. Maybe if you told your daughter about safe sex this wouldnt have happened? I mean obviously a child like that is a bastard child in most cases, but oh not if its Palin's daughter. Its obviously a blessing from god!!!!

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Did you guys really re-open this thread to slam Palin's pregnant daughter? Really?

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Nope. Slamming Palin herself.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

By slamming her daughter. All class. Pat yourself on the back.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

How did I slam her daughter? Her daughter makes her own decisions and are accountable for them herself. I only brought up the whole idea that it might have been a fake pregnancy, which was news to me. IF this is true, then that's a lot worse for Palin. Her daughter doesn't deserve a slap on the wrist for that, only she herself would.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

And I was just slamming Palin herself for not being able to instill enough values into her daughter to at least have safe sex.

I have nothing against slutty girls. :)

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Both of your arguments are pretty pathetic, quite honestly. And the whole "fake pregnancy" thing was widely debunked and considered tabloid nonsense. I'm done even responing to this type of garbage anymore.

If you want to discuss Palin's pick honestly, keep to actual issues. You don't see me continually harping on Reverend Wright, Tony Rezco or William Ayers, do you? Bringing up such muck is beneath you, Game.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

It was debunked?

There's problems you create, and problems that create you. I'm not above talking about either or, because it helps build someone's character. As I expressed earlier, I do respect Palin and what she's done before. I have cousins who were pregnent at that age, and good friends from HS.

The only place this thread could really go now is to the interview Palin just had. While I did express before, some of the questions were a strech to ask of her, I do think the interview went horrible. I think she has just lowered herself to being a complete joke with doing that bad, and I think Mccain should probably consider changing his decision before it gets too late. The VP debate will likely see Palin being KOed many times.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Here is Palin's biggest issue:

"In 1982, Palin enrolled at Hawaii Pacific College but left after her first semester. From there she transferred to North Idaho College, where she spent two semesters as a general studies major. From there, she then transferred to the University of Idaho for two semesters. She then left the University of Idaho and attended Matanuska-Susitna College in Alaska for one term. The next year she returned to the University of Idaho where she spent three semesters completing her Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism, graduating in 1987."

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Really? My issue is her complete lack of any foreign relations experience in this hightened time of international tensions.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Rofl.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

"Safe sex is in the palm of your hand."


Because, even the pill is only 99% effective.

Abstinence is the only 100% effective form of birth control.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

That wasn't really her?

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Ok, I'm going to stay out of most of the argument because I have better things to do than get drawn into a lengthy debate. However, I can't let this one slide.

Barack Obama is one of the top recipients of donations from Fannie and Freddie because lots of lower level employees who happen to work for Fannie and Freddie have donated to his campaign. Every donor is required to state their employer so that the campaigns can be sure that they are allowed to accept the donation. If you actually take a look at the numbers, you will see that out of the $126,000 Obama has received from Fannie and Freddie, only $6,000 comes from PACs and $120,000 comes from individuals (i.e. people who are donating as private citizens and not as Fannie and Freddie lobbyists). It's pretty clear that Obama has simply received lots of $50 and $100 donations from people who happen to state that they work for Fannie and Freddie on their donation forms -- they are otherwise no different from the general public. To imply that the donations of several hundred individual donations from Fannie and Freddie employees to Barack Obama has anything to do with his policy positions is absurd.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

I have issues with the main point of your argument, as there is some evidence of shenanigans (albeit legal shenanigans) when it coms to these donations but lets put that aside. $6,000 came from PAC. How much of F&F's money to McCain came from PAC?

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Well, according to the table I linked, $0.

I'm sure you'll make some political hay out of that fact, and you're welcome to do it. It's beside my point. I don't think Fannie and Freddie have any more influence over Obama than they do over McCain (well, they paid a lot of money to Rick Davis who is a campaign advisor to McCain, apparently, but that's a whole other issue). My point is I think both McCain and Obama are free to do whatever they want with regard to Fannie and Freddie because the vast majority of their donations are from individual people who aren't trying to curry favor for their employer (and besides, the amounts they've received are chump change).

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

I'm not concerned over $6,000, thats chump change, as you said. I was intentionally quuibbling over small points, just to be a smart ass, and the fact that so many news organizations have made such a big deal out of it.

My concern over the donations is much more from other large financial houses, and I think I have another post about that somewhere around here. Ah, the follow the money thread.

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Nice try. I'm on my lunch break and I have more important things to read. :D

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

Sorry, there's no fox news sucks thread yet, but I wanted to share this somewhere. lol

Re: Sarah Palin Interview
 

its split, if split now means everyone voting for Obama