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Re: First time PS3 buyer

The explanation as I understand it:

First off, there is some confusion that 120Hz = Auto Motion Plus stuff. That is not true. The confusion arises because they both first appeared on the same TVs at the same time, and were often advertised together. They are in fact two separate things.

1. 120Hz:

First, consider that the previous standard was 60Hz for LCDs. Then consider the refresh rate of all the typical sources these days -- they boil down, at least here in North America, to either 24 frames per second, 30 fps, or 60 fps. 30 and 60 fps are as I remember typically relegated to TV sources, while 24 fps I believe is typical of DVD and Blu-Ray movies.

The problem is that 60 Hz is not equally divisible by 24 (60/24 = 2.5). And since 24 fps is the standard for the most high quality source out there -- Blu-Ray movies -- it's rather important when it comes to HDTVs.

Since you can't just put up half a screen and expect people not to notice, you have to do some trickery. The math is a little hard to get my head around, but the essence of what happens is that some of the frames of the 24 get stretched out and are played longer in the 60Hz cycle than the other frames (technically the technique is called telecine). This usually goes unnoticed, but can be very obvious on long slow pans, where it looks like the camera jerks along instead of making one smooth pan.

So basically the complaint comes down to you're not getting the original source to play as it was meant to be played. The source has to be changed to make it work on 60Hz. And the change can introduce some very noticeable problems into the film.

You may already be ahead of me at this point, but now think about 120Hz. It is equally divisible by 30, 60, and 24. So every frame is simply doubled (120Hz/60Hz = 2), quadrupled (120Hz/30Hz = 4), or quintupled (120Hz/24Hz = 5). There is no changing the source to make it fit into the LCD's cycle.

So, that is all 120Hz does. It plays every 24, 30, and 60 fps source exactly as it was meant to be played.

(Note that some will say that 120 Hz is also simply better than 60 Hz because it will reduce motion blur and make watching something appear smoother, I guess the same idea with games where 60 fps is better than 30 fps. While this is true if the source material actually went up to 120 Hz, I think it's entirely bullshit when the source material can only go as high as 60 fps. Watching a 60 fps source on a 60 Hz cycle should look exactly the same as watching it on a 120 Hz cycle because the source is still only 60 fps.)

2. Auto Motion Plus (or equivalent)

My understanding of Auto Motion Plus is that it uses an algorithm to interpolate between two frames of the source material to figure out what that frame would have looked like if it had been captured in the original source, and then shows those extra frames. It's like taking a 24 fps film and using an algorithm to fill in the frames in between each of the 24 to make it a 120 fps source. (That's a rough description.)

Think about it. With a 24 fps source and a 120Hz cycle, you are now showing each frame five times in that 120Hz cycle. That's a lot of extra time in there that you can do some fancy stuff in.

The upside is that it sharpens the source and brings out the detail that you wouldn't see without it. The downside is that you're making up frames that aren't there, and as with any algorithm it can introduce very noticeable artifacts into the image. But on the good TVs the artifacts are hardly every seen.

The other downside (for some anyway) is that you're not seeing the director's original intent. The director only wanted you to see the 24 fps, not what the TV can interpolate in between. While this premise is arguable to begin with, I'm on the side that prefers to see the extra detail when, in my opinion, it looks that good.

Re: First time PS3 buyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret (Post 256742)

What?

Re: First time PS3 buyer

Too hard to understand? Maybe I'm reading too many science books lately...

Here's I think a simpler explanation pulled from a thread at avsforum:

Quote:

Anyway, the purpose of 120Hz is to get rid of 3:2 pulldown, when watching movies in 24 frames per second.

When a movie runs at 24fps, a TV running at 60Hz can't accurately display the film perfectly. This is because 60 is not divisible by 24. As a result, the TV will show one frame for three cycles, then the next frame for two cycles, and continues to alternate between 3s and 2s. The result is 24 frames per second, but every "odd" frame is displayed for 50% longer than every "even" frame. Doesn't seem like a big deal, but in fast moving sequences, you will notice a vibrating effect on the screen, otherwise known as "judder".

120Hz TV's don't suffer from this problem because 120 is divisible by 24. In other words, each frame is flashed for the exact same amount of time (five cycles). Instead of 3:2:3:2:3:2..., you get 5:5:5:5:5:5. The result is smoother, crisper motion when watching movies in 24 frames per second.

Auto Motion Plus, Motionflow, Cinemotion, whatever... is an additional technology that processes artificial frames by interpolating the images in the "before" and "after" frames, and then adding the frames in order to enhance the frames per second of the picture. The result is really smooth motion, which looks unnatural and unpleasant to some. Apparently, none of the companies can execute this perfectly, resulting in "artifacts" like the "triple ball effect" and stuttering, when the processor can't handle the processing and falls behind. If you don't like this feature, you can turn it off instead of sending your TV back to the dealer. 120Hz is still awesome.

Re: First time PS3 buyer

So yeah how's the system holding up.

Haha any further in Uncharted?
Next Blu-ray?

Re: First time PS3 buyer

I definitely think you should jump on Wall-E or Planet Earth. Spectacular.

Re: First time PS3 buyer

Dude, magus! I got an Amazon gift card for $35 so I was going to jump on Planet Earth, but now it's back up to $60! Balls on my face!

So, BaB, yeah Planet Earth will be my next one as soon as the price drops again. My girlfriend being so good to me over the weekend, I acquiesced when she wanted to rent Australia. So Australia was the 2nd movie I've seen on Blu-ray. The picture: still amazing; the movie: feel good and cliched but overall a decent film.

No further on Uncharted, though I'm itching to get back to it. My days are pretty much always full from morning to night.

So, BaB, I'm curious... how many consoles do you have, and how many/which games do you have for each? How do you afford all that and still live in NYC??

And, Magus, how many Blu-Ray movies you got? Have you seen all of Planet Earth yet?

Oh, and one more thing -- I saw the old fattie PS3 at Blockbuster, and since I now have the new one, I really looked at it. Aesthetically IMHO -- the slim makes the fattie look like a kid's toy.

Re: First time PS3 buyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret (Post 256770)

So, BaB, I'm curious... how many consoles do you have, and how many/which games do you have for each? How do you afford all that and still live in NYC??

And, Magus, how many Blu-Ray movies you got? Have you seen all of Planet Earth yet?

Well I own all 3 current gen consoles as well as a DS.
It is the first and only time I think I will ever try that.
To me the biggest waste has the Ps3, which is more or less a glorified movie player at this point (it upconverts DVDs nicely as well as a Bluray player). I loved Uncharted, enjoyed Ratchet and Clank and beat Batman on it, but that's been the extent of it. I own a few more games, but either didn't get into them or just never touched them.
The 360 is the console with the most use because of ease of use for the online, and really its been a while since I've played the console solo.
As far as gaming taste goes, the Wii is the system that oddly enough I have completed more single player games on (couldl be because their online is such a pain in the neck)
I own about 7 PS3 games, and about 30 games for each the Wii and the 360.
I really can't afford them, I just shop around too much. I tend to hop on deals whenever Gamestop has a buy 2 get 1 free sale on used games, whenever there is like a single day sale on Amazon or something (I got Hot Shots Golf for Ps3 for like 10 bucks a year ago) or other deals like TRU buy 1 get 50% off on Wii games last week. Every little bit counts, and if you can still get the games you want.
I've also eased up on buying movies and stuff since I rarely get to watch them, I probably have a larger pile of purchased but never watched movies than people have movies.

And while you didn't ask me, I will answer as well and say I own about 20 blu ray movies. While I've had a PS3 for a year or so, I do not buy every movie on blu ray as I feel they need to be worthy.

Like while I loved the Hangover, I never see the need to get a comedy in hi-def, on the other hand Star Trek and Up will def be bought on blu this year, and already shopping around for deals.

~Edit~
Case and point, MGS 4 for 20 bucks is a damn fine deal.
http://www.gohastings.com/catalog/pr...cc7439ea28e16e
Use the promo code 321321 to save a little more as well.

Re: First time PS3 buyer

Damn you have a lot of games. I doubt I'll even buy 30 games this generation overall.

Re: First time PS3 buyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret (Post 256770)

Magus, how many Blu-Ray movies you got? Have you seen all of Planet Earth yet?

Keep in mind I got 5 of these for free with an old deal that was around when I got my PS3. My Blu-ray library is...

American Psycho*
Pirates of the Caribbean 1-3**
Flight of the Phoenix*
Full Metal Jacket*
The Patriot*
Blade Runner (5 disc edition)
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
Casino Royale
Supertroopers
Ghostbusters
Ratatouille
Wall-E
Pixar Short Films Collection Volume 1
Gone in 60 Seconds
Die Hard Collection
Terminator 2: Judgement Day
The Simpsons Movie

* From 5 free deal
** Second film from 5 free deal

If there are more I can't remember now and I'm not at home.

Re: First time PS3 buyer

I understood it the first time I read it. Thanks Manasecret!

Re: First time PS3 buyer

First time PS3 player:

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue. Graphics looked nice (but it's the same game we played 10 years ago, but now with prettier graphics).
I started off with a cool slide through a corner, all the guys were amazed. My luck didn't last long, the rest of the round was aweful. :D It was like the stupid car wouldn't steer as sharp as I wanted it to.

That's all.