Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I listened to Michael Moore in an inverview talking about this movie... I would realy hate to give this clown my money. Just listening to him yap about how Bush should have reacted on the morning of september 11th disturbed me. He says it just exposes the truth, but from what little I have seen and heard him talk about it always sounds like he is trying to manipulate people into thinking his actions are wrong. (Or not what the president "should" do...)

Now I haven't seen the movie, and haven't read many of the other posts in this thread... but I think this is just a politicaly feuled movie that was made for the purpose of getting Bush out of office. I'm sure a film could be made to manipulate people into thinking every president we have had over the lase few decades were twisted.

I'll see the film just for the sake of knowing the content... But I doubt it will change my views coming into the next election.

I respect Michael Moore because he is a man who believes in somthing, and he is trying everything in his power to get the plublic to support him and his way of seeing things... Not many "rich people" are willing to do somthing as crazy as attack the president and make a film like this.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I don't know how people got it in their heads that Moore wants this movie to strictly and solely change peoples views on the presidential election. Unless you can find me a quote that has him saying that.

How can a movie make you change your view?

But since Moore is blatently anti-Bush, its such a big deal to all the republicans everywhere.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

You would have to be blind not to see that this movie's intention is to change peoples views by making the president look bad. Moore can lie all he wants, but the reason he put this on film is to convince others of his views. If he didn't want to pursuade voters, he wouldn't have wasted his time making a movie like this.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Moore has said he wants this movie to change the presidential election, in favor of Kerry.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

lol! would he even of needed to say it?

come on, he's so heavily anti bush that you'd think he'd want bush to win again? of course he wants it to change peoples minds.

of course he might want bush to win so he can do a sequal :sneaky:

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

You all need to remember Moore is not a democrat nor a republican since its making it sound like he is

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Actually he is a registered Democrat in New York and is actually registered to vote in 2 states.



Gee, did Michael Moore lie again? Go figure. :rolleyes:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Now that is absolutely ridiculous.

Do you have any idea how many people are registered as either democrats or republicans but vote for neither?

My dad will punch republican for every election from now till the end of time but he's still a registered democrat because he believes that by voting democratic during the primaries (which is really the only place were registration matters) he can help nominate what he feels to be a "lesser" candidate.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Its not rediculous at all. You and he claimed that was independent. He is not. He is a registered and ACTIVE Democrat according to the state of New York. He has never resigned from the party, which is very easy to do. In fact, its so easy I DID IT. Up until the year 2000 I was a registered Libertarian. In 2000, I switched to independent.

In conclusion. Moore said he was independent when he is an active member of the Democratic party as of his last voting in 2001, as is shown on his registration card. So he lied, and you believed him, and when it was exposed that he lied you quickly excused it because Michael Moore can do no wrong. See how that works?

BTW, anyone else think its sad that such a active political icon hasn't voted in THREE YEARS? I sure do.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I dont.

What if ( hypothetical) he voted for Bush, then he couldnt get mad at him, because he helped put him in office.

Which arises a question, if you vote for Bush, then don't like what hes doing, do you have the right to get mad at him? You helped him.

I think since he didnt vote, technically, he can get mad at whatever president he wants with no fault of "Helping them" get there.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

That may be the weakest, most son-sensical reason for not voting I've ever heard. So he doesn't vote, because it would hinder his ability to criticize people in power? The same guy who said he wanted to "see change in his lifetime" refuses to vote, which directly helps to make change, so that he can continue to feel free to criticize and make movies that make him even richer????

Oh wait, that actually sounds a whole lot like Michael Moore. Never mind, you were dead on.:D

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Um, no.

First, what I said.

Secondly, in Illinois, (this may not be the case in New York.) in order to vote in the primaries, you have to register as a member of one party. If Moore wants to have a say as to which democrats are nominated, he has to be a member of the democratic party. Does this make him a de jure member of the democratic party? Yes, but de facto he's not a democrat by his word alone and, thus, it's not a lie, and I don't even thing you're anal enough to expect him to unregister and reregister before and after every single election.



If this were a matter of fact, you'd have a point. Since we can all choose our political affiliations, this isn't a matter of fact as it were, it's simply a matter of party identification. Moore doesn't identify himself as a Democrat, therefore he's not.



If you can find me a quote where Michael Moore says he is not a REGISTERD democrat, than I will conceed the point to you and crawl back into my hole, but based on the information you've provided, you're wrong.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Strangler, you're missing the point in the congressman interview scene. He doesn't care if people have nephews overseas. That congressman didn't send them there.

The point was that these people encourage other people to send their children to war but refuse to send their own.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I'm hurting myslef? ok im going to make this simple... and.... talk... really... slow.... Bush... lies... lots... more... than.... moore. get it? Listen to what moore says, take out the facts he claims, check them. Is that so hard? you take the facts that are true and you take the facts that are false and he is always going to have a stronger argument against Bush. Why is it so important to take the false points and use them against his fact points? I simply ignore what is fiction and listen to what is fact. try doing that with bush, you get like 5 minutes of listening for an hour long speech.

oops I started talking at normal speed again, well with any luck you might have been able to understand

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Dyflon, if Michael Moore doesn't care that the Congressman had a nephew overseas, why did he take the time to carefully edit out his full response, yet leave in his initial expression? Why not just edit it out competely, or leave it in the whole response if he was going to use it at all?

Answer, and an obvious one at that: It might actually make a republican look like he's not a completely evil member of a secret society out to destroy the world. He cared that the Congressman didn't look like a complete son of a bitch, so he edited it out, like he does with ANY response that doesn't suit his agenda. He does this in ALL of his movies and Bowling for Columbine is his most shining example.

For Michael Moore to allow anyone he does not agree with politically to be viewed as anything but stupid, or evil in his would offend his own beliefs.

He omitted it on purpose to decieve, therefore it is a lie.

And Stonecutter, you can still vote for a President when you are an independent, you just can't vote in a primary, as primaries' purpose IS FOR A POLITICAL PARTY TO CHOOSE A CANDIDATE. If Michael Moore wants to be able to choose the Democratic nominee, then he has to consider himself a member of the Democratic party. But then again, I suppose Michael Moore wants to be able to have it both ways, which is a pattern for him.

Also, considering his penchant for lying, I am not willing to "take him at his word" that he is independent. All the evidence in the world says he is a Democrat, therefore he is a Democrat. Thats how it works. In the real world its what you do and whether or not you have factual evidence that counts, not just what you say. I don't believe Mr. Moore ever got that memo.

One last thing, what do you think about Moore not voting in three years? He always said he wanted to have change in his lifetime, but he hasn't done anything in three years to directly attempt to make change. A little odd don't you think? Maybe... hypocritical?

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Would you please demonstrate your magical ability to seperate facts and lies in the movie Fahrenheit 9/11?

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

That statement is utterly BRILLIANT:rolleyes:

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

heheh. reminds me of that beer commerical with the cartoon doods.

guy 1... you take out the facts that are false!

guy 2... brilliant!

guy 1 and guy 2... BRILLIANT!!!

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

What do you think seriously has been going on that Moore needs people to change in the past 3 years? If he's a registered democrat in NY, that doesn't mean he has to vote democrat. Name something in NY or elsewhere in the past 3 years that needed Moore to go across country and spread his O P I N I O N. Absolutely NOTHING basically. This year's presidential election is something he will most likely vote. It's something major alot of people do. In the 3 and a half years between presidential elections, there isnt much else to vote for. There are local elections, but turnout to them is absurdly low anyways.

I'm not trying to say no one votes in between elections, its just that people don't care much about local elections.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Strangler have you seen the movie?

Because im pretty sure i remember you saying you didn't, yet your saying things how Moore edited the congressmans response, first, if you havent seen it, how would you know. And second, if you have how would you know what his actual response was? Obviously they didnt show the response, so how do you know he didnt give just what he said.

And let me ask you this Strangler, If you have 3 kids, would you send them willingly to war? I doubt it. If oyu have kids, the last thing you want to do is send them into war, yet you would have no remorse for sending anyone elses children to war, now would you?


( You're probably in favour of the draft, arn't you?)

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Nope. Not yet anyways. I'm still trying to find a source that I can download in a codec I can use. I have read much of the transcript, though.

I read the transcript. I watch the news. I follow current events.

I would not send them to war, as no parent actually sends their child to war, but I would not stop them from going. This is a country where we have the freedom of choice. If my children choose to go into the military, I would not stop them from going to Iraq. The military is not the boy scouts. Its not summer camp. The military is a public service where you know when you go in there is a chance you may see fighting and you may be killed. It always makes me laugh when people act surprised that military personnel are asked to fight in defense of our nation and other free peoples. Thats what they're there for.

And no, I'm not for the draft unless absolutely 100% necessary. I don't believe this is one of those times and the only time I feel it was necessary was during WW2.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Michael Moore is more than just the average person. He is an opinion maker and wields great influence in politics. He is opinions and actions need to coincide if he is to be taken seriously and he has a responsiblility to do as he tells you to do. Not doing so makes him a hypocrit.

You can't tell everyone to go out and change the world, and then only follow through on your own words when you feel like it.

Well thats my opinion, anyway. And for the record, I vote on every election.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Its called reading. I use the internet, google is a very good site.

yes good one, take one error in my post and use it against the rest of what I say, thats what I call Brilliant, hey why don't you make fun of the fact I capitalized brilliant and you can forget that you're a failure

I'm going to try and sum this up, if you argue against Micheal Moore for good reasons then I can respect that, if you argue against him for not citing Stupid White Men, I can respect that, If you argue against his movie you havn't seen your a moron. Watch the movie or start a new thread titled "Micheal Moore is a moron up until Farinheit 9/11"

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Oh yes, I'm a failure because you know me so well considering you've been here about a week.:rolleyes:

Try again. This is fun.:D

I agree. Then maybe you'd like to read any of the numerous sites I've posted on here about the subject. I found them all on Google too by just typing in "Michael Moore". You know, the ones that expose Moore as a liar and a hypocrit in basically every facet of his life.

If you'd like to compare sources, I'm more than up for it.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

read what I added onto my last post regarding your stupidity, now as for your sources, I personally dwell on what is fact, unless it is someone like bush that clearly lies so much that there is no point in even bothering. If you want to read something that you know isn't going to be a lie, read Dude wheres my country, he cites everything in that book.

Right now I don't feel like browsing the web searching for sites that prove me right, because I think its very well summed up in Farinheit 9/11 as I said before watch it or start a new thread.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Dear Zaglar Ninja

As for books, you should check out Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Guy by David T. Hardy. It basically takes apart pretty much all of Moore's worked, including Dude, Where's My Country that you seem to treat with such high esteem. I haven't gotten my copy yet, but I've been following the works of Hardy for a while now and he pretty much owns Moore.

Here's a source for you:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

and another:
http://bowlingfortruth.com

and another:
http://www.moorelies.com

and another:
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html

and another:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

That one's by Christopher Hitchins, who is one of the more brilliant debunkers in the world, who has gone after Reagan, Clinton and even Mother Theresa (and made some really good points against her, suprisingly enough!).

and another:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/...l?id=110003233

That one's from the Wallstreet Journal

So lets see... I challenge you to a fact finding mission about Michael Moore, and you insult me, blame everything on Bush and then cite a book by the very person I'm asking you to fact check. Grasping at straws are we?

Thanks, its been fun, now say goodnight and let the big kids talk.

Love,
The Strangler

PS - XOXOXO

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

unlike you I plan to read those, but after a quick skim through I saw nothing about Dude wheres my country. Dude wheres the flaws in dude wheres my country?

the second link has some stuff about dude wheres my country but their facts against it are pointless, "the Bin Ladens apparently chartered their own plane. They did not get a "free trip" as Moore tells us" Since when is that the point? they had to pay for it but the point is that they get to fly where others cant

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Remember the book I asked you to check out in my last post? Its in there. And I did actually read all of those sites, thanks. Why else would I have cited them? :retard:

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I'm not talking about you not reading those sites, im talking about you not reading/watching anything you critisize

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Strangler, this site is right up your alley
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

can I expect a guest appearance of you in the movie?

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

ok I can't read any more of that stupidity, these sites should really piss you off strangler because they abundently "miss the point" Well then again you havnt seen or read most of his works so when they mention his lies, you don't seem to get it. They are making the fact that he has all these little lies that no one pays attention to, the fact is they havnt caught him on one big lie yet so the facts that people actually listen to and talk about are the real ones. Watch the movie and see if you can spot any big lies. Until then please get out of this thread.

why dont you just accept the fact that you don't really know anything about farinheit 9/11 no one is agreeing with you yet you still make all these comments about a movie you havnt seen

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Sorry, but i kinda have to agree with him.

You said it yourself, you havent seen the movie, so don't just cite things trying to save your case on Moore. Wait until you see the movie, then do it.

Dont back your case on a guy that debunked Mother Teresa, the woman was technically a saint, how can you debunk a friggin' saint?!?! What are the debunkings against a saint?

" One time...she drank wine.."

The fact is they can debunk Moore all they want, but Moore is also debunking Bush.

I can understand you wanting to stand up for your beliefs, but i just think its kind of sad that you cant just even agree with other people and their opinions.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I asked you to demonstrate your magical ability, not talk about it.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

thats amazing but I dont really know how to show you how to read over the internet.

but if you can read this I think you can pass

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

Since you are incapable of demonstrating your magical ability, could you please cite a website that has helped you filter Moore's facts from lies? And if you are incapable of doing that could you please list which of Moore's claims you have researched?

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I have a better idea, read all of the sites the strangler has posted, they have all the lies.

Now you might notice how small and pathetic those lies are, and their importance is almost none.

So after reading all those sites and getting all those small lies out of the way it is safe to assume all the important things Micheal Moore says is true

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I'm not sure if I should laugh or feel sorry for the future of Canada.

I will look forward to an intelligent discuss with Dylflon and Typhoid tomorrow. :)

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I'm serious, they catch terrible lies that don't matter at all. If that doesn't convince you because I know your too lazy just to read the sites, then try Dude wheres my country, he has citations in the book.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I'm not sure if I should laugh or feel sorry for the future of the entire planet. ; ; Hmm... I'll probably laugh.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
 

I am not sure if anybody allready said this, because I didn't read most of this thread.... But did anybody else catch the little bit of music they played when it showed George W. Bush's military record? When they zoomed in in the paragraph speaking about him not taking the physical, they played the first couple of seconds of Eric Clapton's hit song, "Cocaine." I thought that was kind of funny.