Re: Paul Ryan
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And just look at polls and you'll see that while people say they want free or single-payer healthcare, they don't want anything that comes with it when implemented. They want a free lunch, but once they find out they can't choose what they want to eat, they find it unpalatable. This isn't opinion, it's polled fact. There really is no point in arguing about this because we have two very different recollections of what happened in the campaign and over his nearly 4 years as President. If you believe this administration has been conciliatory or compromising, there is literally nothing for us to debate. |
Re: Paul Ryan
So is it true that Ryan spent this entire speech telling lies at the last convention?
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Re: Paul Ryan
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Example Claim - The ACA guts over $700 million from Medicare. The "Lie" Version: The ACA does NOT cut the current level of Medicare spending at all. The "Truth" Version: The ACA DOES cut the planned growth in Medicare spending by the amount claimed. Politicians, including this Administration, have often spoken about current and future spending interchangeably, depending on what benefits them. From FactCheck.org: http://factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-vp-spin/ Quote:
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Re: Paul Ryan
Oh, and an example of people essentially "lying" about Ryan's "lies":
Claim: "Ryan's budget keeps the same cuts to Medicare Part A that Obamacare does, so Ryan is a hypocrite." The first part of that statement is true... BUT ... Ryan's plan puts the future funds directly into the Medicare trust fund to help shore it up (it is bleeding cash), as opposed to the Democrat plan that diverts the funds into the ACA. So if you're a senior, and Ryan states that the ACA "raids" funds from Medicare (healthcare for seniors) to fund the ACA (healthcare for all), it is technically true. Quote:
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Re: Paul Ryan
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http://ed.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/29...-plant-closing [paraphrasing] Ryan says something like: "Obama said he wanted to keep the GM plan open, but look now it's closed and all these people are out of jobs." He's obviously implying that Obama is the reason it closed, but it actually happened when Bush was in power. But if you break down his sentance, he's telling the truth... he's just leaving out information, and being misleading. Reminds me of george bush and dick cheney talk on the war in Iraq. (When they weren't being idiots) they were saying how Saddam and Iraq is linked to terrorism, and would find a way to put 9-11 in the same sentance... but they avoided directly stating that Iraq caused 9-11. But there were strong implications. |
Re: Paul Ryan
By the way, let's not think that Ryan was the only misleading speaker at a convention. Pres. Clinton was pretty good at that too...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories...824_Page2.html |
Re: Paul Ryan
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And for the record, the plant Ryan talked about was still technically open after Pres. Obama was elected, but it was on "stand-by". It was never put back in operation and remained on "stand-by" when Pres. Obama made these comments: Quote:
In the end, it's politics. Both parties are going to spin facts to meet their goals and opinions. Saying one does so more than the other is splitting hairs. |
Re: Paul Ryan
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Just compare the fact check articles on Ryan's speech vs. Clinton's speech. I mean, even Fox was calling Ryan out on what he said. |
Re: Paul Ryan
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As you say, compare the fact checking on all the speeches and make your own conclusions. I recommend FactCheck.org for a truly unbiased account. The Politico article on Clinton's speech I posted is pretty good as well. To be honest, the "fact checking" that has been done by most news organizations has been awful on all sides and for both conventions. American news is dead. We're on our own. |
Re: Paul Ryan
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http://factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-vp-spin/ The one you listed. I mean you can't pick out one not-so-bad lie and make it sound like everything else was just a not-so-bad-lie. But when your ENTIRE speech is not-so-bad-lies (which it isn't, some of them are pretty bad)...wtf are you even talking for? I understand his entire purpose was to get people motivated, but half the things he criticized Obama for were things that he also supported. I'm not even saying those things were bad things to support, but getting your party hyped up against something that you support is just silly. What do Republicans even want or stand for at this point, I don't even know. |
Re: Paul Ryan
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Here are my point by point opinions from the FactCheck.org article and my thoughts on them: Quote:
As for the ACA improving Medicare's finances, that's only because it "improves costs" by paying hospitals and doctors less, an incredibly stupid idea that is rife with unintended consequences. Quote:
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But I fail to see how this is any more offensive than blaming Republicans for the current state of the debt when the current Administration has spent far more every year than Republicans did under Bush. Again, Ryan's speech was misleading, but I just don't get why everyone is losing their minds over it, aside from political bias and the fact his speech was largely effective. Side note: I always watch Chris Matthews to see when Republicans are effective in communication. When he loses his mind, Republicans hit a home run. When he laughs at them, they dropped the ball. Matthews was insane after Ryan's speech. And by the way, you can feel free to disagree with me, and considering our political philosophies I'm not shocked we disagree since Ryan's speech was largely philosophical, but I think I know "wtf I'm talking for". |
Re: Paul Ryan
Just watched Clinton's speech; he is a master at politics.
Any thoughts on Obama's speech? I've only seen the first ten minutes, but so far it's terrible. |
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