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Yes, but how can I prove myself existant? How can I prove that someone has seen, felt, or learned of me when everything else is a result of my seeing, feeling, and learning.

According to your logic, everything exists because of me. How could I make myself exist though? How did I make myself exist to make everything else exist to make me exist?

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if your here then how do you not existence.
it doesent matter who made you existence. Its the fact that you do existence that matters

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Umm, all those "existence" should have been "exist". :)

As for your question:

I can't prove/disprove that I'm here.

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Thats deep jeff thats really deep that touches me right here *points to heart*

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yes you can open your eyes are you there then thats existence. you exist. existence is you being there nothing more if your there you exist. and dont say how to prove your there theres nothing to prove you can type i can interact with you your there dont make it more then that if you do then your wrong. dont look for answers that have no question its just a stupid saying you thought sounds cool but gets old
p.s. ace i try

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How can you prove/disprove that what your eyes show you is what's really there or not there?

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because it is there how can you question it not being there you giving the word a differnt meaing like saying this jelly dont tase like penut butter
of course it doesnt. how else can you prove somthing. there is no other way you see it its there end of story.

For Your Information: The things shown in the Matrix are not true. It is a fictionary world created by some guy that had too much time on his hands. It is a great movie, but you should not believe what it says. I think you've watched it one too many times.

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lol, belive it or not, I like Gamemaster's arguement.

He is thinking along the lines of a movie I have seen, to give a better example... The Matrix... or even worse the 13th floor (or somthing like that).

How do we know we are real and not a AI program? We could be living in some futurisic verion of the Sims... my way of disproving that I live in some type of Matrix is my faith. If you have faith in nothing you aren't alive.

You believe that you are real, and that's all a matter of faith, you can't prove you are real, it's just progrmmed into your head... just like the Sims. It's impossible to not poor ny faith into anyhing, because if you didn't you might as well be dead.

I'm not saying go out and kill yourself, but even if you were to, you have faiht that when that bullet goes through your head you will die.

Like GM said about the food, Crono quickly sruck back with the fact that he would die if he stopped eating... but guess what... Crono obviously hasn't stopped eating long enough to find out... he just has faith that stopping will kill him.

How do you guys know if we are real or not? Or if every person place and thing you have ever run into are just ailens here testing you? Why don't you pove that? You can't jump into another person's body can you? You just have what you have.

Why do people have compassion for others? Because they think they are the same, but you really don't know until you become them, which you can't.

I'm even confusing myself the way I am talking, but at least I feel I have purpose in life. Some have faith in science, some have faith in thier own beliefs, and some have faith in God. The key is no matter if you are aithest or not, you have faith in somthing, if you like it or not.

So GM using food as a form of belief is reasonable. Just because you drop the ball the same way into the same spot for years, it doesn't mean that the next time you do it the result will be the same...the next time it could float up and hit you in the head. Nothing is guranteed.

We don't even know the sun will come up tomorrow... are there parts of the world you haven't been to? Well, you don't know it's real, or if it's fake until you go there for yourself. You cannot prove anyhing you haven't done, faith is the only way to come to a reasonable conclusion.

You think you will die it you shoot yourself in the head? Well you can't prove it... maybe if one of us ailens who are testng you would go away if that happens, but you don't know that it will happen the next time or if you try it on yourself. You have faih that it will or it won't

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*claps* bravo
all I have to say is wjy does it matter
if your here then your here if not then why should you care your not real thus leading into the ultimate question ??why??

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I don't understand what you are trying to say

The point of my post an the point of beating MGS2 (;)) is that I have faith in the Bible... does that mean that it's going to happen for sure? Well, I'm about as sure of the Bible as you guys are sure that the sun will come up tomorrow morning... does that mean it's truly going to happen? We don't know until we experience, but we have faith in tomorrow.

I have my answer to the 'Why' of my life, until proven otherwise that's what I know will happen. Just like Crono knows stopping eating
will kill him.

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And with that being said, I hereby declare myself and TheGame the winners of this thread! ;)

Ok Justin, lock this baby up. ;)

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:lol:

I would never abuse my power like that ;)

Ok, unless I'm agueing with D-RealLoser... :)

(because he would flame me and give me a legit reason to :sneaky: )

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GameMaster you are so caught up in yourself it's ridiculous.

I won't even bother to repeat what other people have already said. You are very close to getting banned from this forum. Contribute productively or don't contribute at all.

Re: Your Religion!
 

This here is the withstandinator, it can take a six megaton blast, no more, no less.


/me hops in.

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Good grief man. Use periods!

My head hurts.

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That's great... But what is he arguing? He was talking about something completely different than everybody else. I don't know if he actually thought it was relevant or if he's just stupid, but his "arguement" does not belond in this conversation at all. Or any other threads (he seems to think that this whole "exist or not exist" crap is relevant in the usergroup thread as well :rolleyes: )

He's entitled to his opinion (although it seems to contradict what he was initially saying) and you're entitled to your's, but this particular opinion is being told in the wrong place.


*shrugs and walks away*

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Not to jump in in the wrong spot or anything. But who cares if we exist or not. I mean if we don't then who knows ? But I mean as long as we "think" we exist lets atleast have fun with out lives before we become some meaningless "fertilizer" if we do exist. I'm not saying go loot and pillage I'm saying smile more, don't judge on apperances, be happy with your self image, don't follow lead. These are all just things that I believe people should live by. And by doing that weither we're really here or not makes no diffrence because if you do those things then you made someone esle's existence better and if were not really here who's gonna know ?

Hmmm...GameMaster getting caught up in an empty argument about existence in which he uses questionable logic just for the sake of, as far as I can tell, hearing his own voice.

Where have I seen this before?

Sorry, GameMaster. If Bond decides to ban you, I can't pull you out of this one. Although I'm not sure I would want to anyway.

In case you guys haven't figured it out yet, GameMaster isn't worth paying attention to. Just ignore what he says. Or even put him on your ignore list.

I go away to school for one week, and a religion thread rears it's ugly head again.

In the time from the last relgiion thread, which was what 5-10 mins ago or so? I realized I have no faith, but am spiritual or so my friends told me when we had this discussion over pizza. If you must know, I had a slice with a hot dog roll and a Tropical Sprite Remix.

GameMaster, as always you just try too damn hard. I mean just because you try and make an intelligent arguement doesn't make you look intelligent. I forget the old cliche, but it's something along the lines of "Better to be thought of a fool, then to speak and remove all doubts."

As for Justin, it's not too shocking to see you agree with the most farfetched arguement thrown out =-D , but your logic works and doesn't work. We have no idea in knowing if we really exist or if we are just some game someone else is playing. And in the long run, it really doesn't matter. We don't make our living on knowing we exist, we exist as our own entity. We may or may not make our own decisions, but as long as we perceive that we do, we are fine, and until you can prove it wrong, eh.


Anyhow, textbooks call.

100th Post.

=o

You guys sure like to argue.

Yes, Yes I do. But I don't argue just for the sake of agrueing, I believe what I'm talking about.

Re: Your Religion!
 

Then you completly missed the point of my post ;)

Faith is believing in somthing... and there are a lot of things you can believe in. Every human I know has faith in somthing. You have probably made plans to buy somthing or do somthing with your life in the future... but the fact that you are making plans for the future means you believe that there will be a tomorrow.

Will there be tomorrow? Unless sombody has a time machine and have seen it, there is no way to tell. Will there even be a tomorrow for you personally? Who knows, you could die today.. hell, even right as you read this post... but you have faith in the fact that you won't, even though it can't be proven.

There I go confusing myself again... :confused:

Anyway, I doubt there is a person in theis forum who has no faith in somthing that may or may not be true and that may or may not happen. That's the thing about the world, nothing is guaranteed, but if we were to think this way 24/7 we would probably be suicidal maniacs.

to have no faith you would have to sit there questioning each second of your life, one by one by one, no sleep, no food, no nothing.

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Hey, I never read any of your posts, it's usually

*Makes point*

Blah..blah..blah..

*Tries to make point again*


Bleh...bleh..bleh...

=-D

I just skimmed it really so eh, but who knows.

And define faith, I mean you can have "faith" in yourself, but that is completely different than having "faith" in an uneartherly being.

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Having faith in anything is the same as having faith in anything else... faith is believing is somthing that cannot be proven... and if somthing hasn't happend yet, it cannot be proven. So if you believe somthing will happen in the future, you have faith in it. Just like a person beliveing in the future after they die that they are going to heaven, you can't prove them wrong... just I can't prove you wrong if you say somthing you have no control over will happen.

Seeeee I told you this thread would start controversy. Hurrah!

Anyway, I'm an aetheist because I just scientifically don't believe there could have ever been a god. Or heck maybe there was a god who came here and created this place, and maybe now he's gone back to his wife somewhere in this galaxy and he could care less about us. Maybe god is an alien. Have you guy's ever heard of Occam's Razor? Basically it means the simplest explanation is the right one? Right? So the simplest explanation here is that there is no god! I mean It's much more believable right that there is some all powerful being out there that watches over us and controls everything right? I call that a tall tell my friend, like Paul Bunyan and his big blue ox.

Who's to say that Jesus wasn't some nut who went around spouting off some tale in his head, and eventually he got some followers. Notice how all these religions were started by men?! Hmm.

You think a massive explosion of mass that seemingly came out of nowhere (even though that's supposedly impossible) that then reacted together in such a way to create billions of stars and planets and eventually Earth is simpler than God made everything?

*snort*


*shrugs and walks away*

I think the chances of what you just described happening, Ginkasa, are a lot more likely than some all mighty superbeing thing that made everything and everyone and controls everything and everyone.

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I've always found pretending to be a member of the opposite sex disturbing but that's just me.

And I'm an Atheist .:)

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That means nothing coming from someone with the title 'Fuzzy Bunny'. You common peon, get back to work.

----> You :retard: :whip: Me <----

Exactly. If people believe that the big bang theory is correct, and that this ball of energy exploded, than all of the atoms reconnected to form these massive fusion reactors called stars, and then formed to form earth, with the exact things we need to live, then formed us the exact way we need to be, with all our organs inside our body, and then some how these atoms were able to connect in such a way that we are alive, and can move, and are not inanimate and we can think . I would say that God comeing and just making us is much simpler indeed, and much more probable than all those atoms connecting and forming and changine in the perfect way.

I don't see how the big bang theory makes any type of sense at all. Let's use an example of a recent explosion that we're all aware of on September 11th. After the planes made the buildings go BOOM, and they were still standing, was anything in some kind of perfect structure, order or anything. I have a hard time believing that some explosion caused the planets to line up in an order, orbit the sun, and do things in set patterns like the universe does. I have never seen any explosions or heard of any explosions that cause order and structure.

Re: Your Religion!
 

Yes... God is the simple explination.

The Big Bang Theory is suspect... things just don't appear from nothing, especially somthing as complex as life.

Think about the most powerful super computer in the world... the technology that build that is trillions of years behind the technology it would take to build a whole new race of people who can think and survive like humans from scratch. And keep in mind I'm comparing building to building. In how some think we were created, we would have just had to been made by the environment from nothing with nothing aiding us.

People say we grew from organisims... where did they come from? Somewhere down the line somthing put us here... I would believe that before I could believe 'It just happend'

We just happen to be the smartest being on this planet, in the perfect situation..... how and why?

Re: Your Religion!
 

The Big Bang Theory isn't an explosion that could take down two buildings. In this case, you're talking about a very small explosion (it may have killed 2000+ people, but the explosion is very small). On the other hand, the Big Bang would've been a massive explosion, nothing you could ever dream or think of, it would've been an explosion of 100s of billions of km in diameter, releasing massive amounts of Hydrogen in the process. It is said that all other elements (besides Helium, because Hydrogen and Helium are the two most abundant elements in the Universe) were born from Hydrogen through intense nuclear and chemical reactions, which would result in the necessary elements like Oxygen, which would later form Water, with the help of Hydrogen.

When thinking about the Big Bang Theory, it is much more complex than just a regular explosion like you've seen on tv or in movies. This type of explosion would probably wipe out our solar system in a matter of minutes, and like I said, it would release HUGE amounts energy through fusion and/or fission processes. Now, as far as I know, there is no theory on how the explosion actually ccured. I may be wrong, however. But the point I am trying to make is that the Big Bang Theory is much more complex than what you may believe, and because you don't understand the complex nature of physics, you, and many others, will shrug the Big Bang Theory as simply being impossible.

And, I must comemnt on one more thing:

I've always wondered why the Earth happens to be in the "perfect place". Sometimes I think it could've simply been a coincedence. Why was Pluto put in such a cold part of our solar system? Perhaps that was also randomly formed. These geological processes take billions of years to develop, not something that could happen overnight. And because of that, I do find it hard to believe something simply put us here. Maybe something did in fact guide us here, but with all the complex natures of the Universe, it is extremely hard for me to believe that one being could simply create all of this. Maybe this being helped start the Universe's expansion, but I believe everythign else was formed by the geological processes that take billions of years to do develop. Then again... that's just me. Because I'm not Religous, I see things from an entire different perspective than those who are.

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The Big Bang theory believes that energy from the explosion was formed, and that energy was used to create many things.

However, I'd say the explosion would be a tad bit larget than a couple trillion km wide ¦¬Þ, seeing as how the Universe is quite possible infinitely large.


I hate infinites and paradoxs, no matter how fun they are to talk about. "There are infinite real numbers between 1 and 2... and also between 6 and 1,000. Therefor, there are the same amount of numbers between both sets". Yes, by doubling infinite, you get infinite... it... makes me... angry!! *smashy smashy*

But seriously, understanding the universe and creation is out of a Gaming Forum's league.

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The only answer I really got from you is that you think it was a coincidence...? :confused:

You find it hard to believe somthing put us here... why? Why couldn't a being create all this if they are infinintly smarter than we can even begin to imagine?

What is your theory on the orgin of life?

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Who, me? Err, I'm undecided. I don't believe the Big Bang theory at all. Why couldn't a being create the universe, you ask? Well, it may have been possible, but that doesn't explain "the origin". That is, if something did make the universe, then what made the "creator"? Paradoxes... paradoxes!


P.S. If there is a god, what "made" the god?

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1. Yes, a coincidence. Why were the Rocky Mountains formed? Why was the Pacific Ocean formed? Why were the Himalaya's formed? It was by random Gelogical processes, that's how I believe the Earth was formed. It just could've happened that the rocks from 4.7 Billion years ago stopped in a perfect orbit distance from the sun. If you don't see my point... then why are the other planets not in good places? Perhaps they were also random. Why would God put other planets there for no reason? As far as we can see, the other 8 planets are of no value to us. Mars is a giant rustball, what is the point of it? Processes like these take billions of years, and the Earth is still changing today. That, is basic Earth Science.

2. But who knows if there is a smarter being? Unless it's brain can take on 1000s of tasks at once, such creation would take thousands, if not millions of years to develop. As I stated earlier in this thread, I do not deny the existence of such a being, I just find it hard to believe, there is a huge difference. Religion vs Science is one of the oldest battle in books, I'm just trying to help Science in this thread... because most people seem to be pro-Religion (nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying).

3. I don't know how life originated. It is probably impossible for us to know. The Universe is way too big for us to study it's natural history. Chemical reactions can naturally provide the essentials for life, but when it comes to how we, humans, actually got here... I really have no idea.

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It may not be the big bang, but at least, it's a better theory than believing god simply created everything. Or as the Game said, it might be something else that created us, but it certainly not happened like it's described in the bible.

Some other form of life could have created us, but I also think that life was able to just "appear" on earth and then evolve in the species that we know today (humans included). Afterall, if you look at the smallest living cell, it's only formed of certains elements and there's plenty of those elements on this planet, it was only a matter of time before the right elements connect together to form something alive. I'm pretty sure that we are not far from making that process happen again, in a controlled environement. Here's a link I found: http://www.abc.net.au/pm/s72513.htm

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Well, the reason we're using this "what made what" argument against the Big Bang and all that is because, in science, its supposed to be impossible to have matter come form nothing. Everything has to come form something else. yet, according to the Big Bang theory, an explosion just happened in nothingness, and created all these gasses and stuff that supposedly formed life and the planets and suns, etc.

As for your questions of what made God... Nothing did. God just is. Alwats has been. He is the origin. The Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end.

I will admit that this aspect of Christianity is the hardest for me grasp simply because it is hard to imagine someone who just is. Someone who is above time and the supposed "laws" of the universe.

*shrugs and walks away*