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-   -   Thoughts on circumcision? (http://www.gametavern.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19596)

KillerGremlin 04-21-2009 12:02 AM
Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I'm anti-circumcision as I think it perpetuates (at least in America) feelings that are anti-sex/pleasure. The practice is still done to males, and even worse is female circumcision/mutilation. For context, the practice was originally done to reduce sexual pleasure to make people more pure. Sounds kind of outdated and barbaric, no?

Anyway, I had the chop. My parents are conformists. What can you do. :(

Swan 04-21-2009 12:35 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I don't think there are any ladies left, dude

KillerGremlin 04-21-2009 12:40 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan (Post 248887)
I don't think there are any ladies left, dude
I figure, but I don't want to discriminate or anything.

Acebot44 04-21-2009 01:12 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I'm uncut.

Hasn't really been an issue, girls don't seem to mind. Everything is the same with a condom on anyway.

I don't think I'll circumcise my kid(s) either, better to at least let them have a choice. I think around 60% of males these days are getting the snip snip, although I don't understand the reason behind it.

gekko 04-21-2009 01:53 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerGremlin (Post 248885)
For context, the practice was originally done to reduce sexual pleasure to make people more pure. Sounds kind of outdated and barbaric, no?
Actually sounds like your information is completely garbage. The history is fairly scattered, and you managed to pick out only one piece, which is far from proven knowledge.

Anyways, all I have to say is ouch.

KillerGremlin 04-21-2009 02:21 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gekko (Post 248893)
Actually sounds like your information is completely garbage. The history is fairly scattered, and you managed to pick out only one piece, which is far from proven knowledge.

Anyways, all I have to say is ouch.
Nice...you edited your post while I was finding some sources :p. I wouldn't say my info is garbage, here are some sources. I will agree that historians and anthropoligists have different theories on the origins of circumcision, but there is no denying that some people use it on anti-sex grounds.

http://www.cirp.org/library/history/
Quote:
One theory postulates that circumcision began as a way of "purifying" individuals and society by reducing sexuality and sexual pleasure. Human sexuality was seen as dirty or impure in some societies; hence cutting off the pleasure-producing parts was the obvious way to "purify" someone.
Quote:
It is now known that the male foreskin, or prepuce, is the principal location of erogenous sensation in the human male (see Anatomy.) Removal of the prepuce substantially reduces erogenous sensation. Therefore (in the appropriate cultural context), circumcision is revealed as a sacrifice of "sinful" human enjoyment (in this earthly life), for the sake of holiness in the afterlife.
and here were the liberals back in the day:
Quote:
In contrast to the Jews, the Greeks and the Romans placed a high value on the prepuce. The Romans passed several laws to protect the prepuce by prohibiting circumcision.
http://www.cirp.org/library/history/dunsmuir1/

Quote:
In some African tribes, circumcision is performed at birth. In Judaic societies, the ritual is performed on the eighth day after birth, but for Moslems and many of the tribal cultures it is performed in early adult life as a `rite of passage', e.g. puberty or marriage. Why the practice evolved is not clear and many theories have been proposed. Nineteenth century historians suggested that the ritual is an ancient form of social control. They conceive that the slitting of a man's penis to cause bleeding and pain is to remind him of the power of the Church, i.e. `We have control over your distinction to be a man, your pleasure and your right to reproduce'.
this one is even better:
Quote:
Others believe that circumcision arose as a mark of defilement or slavery [1,9] (fig. 1). In ancient Egypt captured warriors were often mutilated before being condemned to the slavery.
http://www.d.umn.edu/~mcco0322/history.htm
Quote:
Circumcision for the Egyptians was a method of purification; the body’s openings were considered portals through which impure and malignant spirits might penetrate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...e_circumcision
Quote:
It has been variously proposed that male circumcision began as a religious sacrifice, as a rite of passage marking a boy's entrance into adulthood, as a form of sympathetic magic to ensure virility, as a means of suppressing (or enhancing) sexual pleasure, as an aid to hygiene where regular bathing was impractical, as a means of marking those of lower (or higher) social status, as a means of differentiating a circumcising group from their non-circumcising neighbors, as a means of discouraging masturbation or other socially proscribed sexual behaviors, to remove "excess" pleasure, to increase a man's attractiveness to women, as a symbolic castration, as a demonstration of one's ability to endure pain, or as a male counterpart to menstruation or the breaking of the hymen or to copy the rare natural occurance of a missing foreskin of an important leader. It has been suggested that the custom of circumcision gave advantages to tribes that practiced it and thus led to its spread regardless of whether the people understood this. [1] It is possible that circumcision arose independently in different cultures for different reasons. Biblical circumcision was an expression that a man had chosen to live his life for God and could control his own body. In the passing of time it was become isolated from this entirely, rather like infant christening.
Anyway, I agree with the latter part of your post but I wouldn't say my original statement was garbage.

TheSlyMoogle 04-21-2009 03:00 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I am cut and I will have to say that only one out of the 5 guys I've been with to date was uncut, and it was a little uhm strange. Let's just say that I do believe completely that a cut penis is a cleaner penis.

:D

BreakABone 04-21-2009 10:33 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle (Post 248895)
I am cut and I will have to say that only one out of the 5 guys I've been with to date was uncut, and it was a little uhm strange. Let's just say that I do believe completely that a cut penis is a cleaner penis.

:D
Well, it comes with a bit more cleaning, but other than that don't see why it would be too different cleanliness wise.

Ric 04-21-2009 11:48 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
:lol:

Clenliness... I dont know about you but I wash my dick :lolz:

I said Dude, I'm A Lady because I thought it was funny.

Foreskin is good, it stops your nob rubbing on your trousers when you walk down the street which if your dong is as long as mine you will know is not a pleasurable expeience. Kinda gets in the way if your doing a really tight girl without a johnny though.

Man, this topic is funny :lolb:

Fox 6 04-21-2009 12:10 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Lets just take his word on it, Id say he knows from experience.

BreakABone 04-21-2009 12:20 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric (Post 248913)
:lol:

Clenliness... I dont know about you but I wash my dick :lolz:
I didn't say I didn't... I was just saying that you have to be thorough and also clean under the hood so junk doesn't accumulate.

Ric 04-21-2009 12:27 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakABone (Post 248917)
clean under the hood so junk doesn't accumulate.
It's called Smegma. And it's not often I get to use that word so thankyou :lol:

Seth 04-21-2009 12:39 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I'm cut. Too each their own.

Bond 04-21-2009 02:22 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerGremlin (Post 248885)
I'm anti-circumcision as I think it perpetuates (at least in America) feelings that are anti-sex/pleasure. The practice is still done to males, and even worse is female circumcision/mutilation. For context, the practice was originally done to reduce sexual pleasure to make people more pure. Sounds kind of outdated and barbaric, no?

Anyway, I had the chop. My parents are conformists. What can you do. :(
Well... I don't know if circumcision perpetuates an anti-sex/pleasure mentality (maybe it does this because it is perceived of doing this), but circumcision is certainly, at least partly, grounded in religious tradition dating back thousands of years.

Now, one can debate the legitimacy of these traditions, whether they still apply to today's time, etc, but there is always (I think) intrinsic worth in practicing traditions.

As far as the societal impact of circumcision goes, I'd say it is minimal. There isn't much discrimination that can result from a man being or not being circumcised, minus in the bedroom, of course.

Professor S 04-21-2009 02:41 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
The ladies love the bald eagle.

KillerGremlin 04-21-2009 03:00 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond (Post 248926)
Well... I don't know if circumcision perpetuates an anti-sex/pleasure mentality (maybe it does this because it is perceived of doing this), but circumcision is certainly, at least partly, grounded in religious tradition dating back thousands of years.

Now, one can debate the legitimacy of these traditions, whether they still apply to today's time, etc, but there is always (I think) intrinsic worth in practicing traditions.

As far as the societal impact of circumcision goes, I'd say it is minimal. There isn't much discrimination that can result from a man being or not being circumcised, minus in the bedroom, of course.
The adoption of circumcision into our culture is where I think some of the anti-sex context comes from (the Victorian era was fuuuckked up):
Quote:
Several hypotheses have been raised in explaining the American public's acceptance of infant circumcision as preventive medicine. The success of the germ theory of disease had not only enabled physicians to combat many of the postoperative complications of surgery, but had made the wider public deeply suspicious of dirt and bodily secretions. Accordingly, the smegma that collects under the foreskin was viewed as unhealthy, and circumcision readily accepted as good penile hygiene.[72] Secondly, moral sentiment of the day regarded masturbation as not only sinful, but also physically and mentally unhealthy, stimulating the foreskin to produce the host of maladies of which it was suspected. In this climate, circumcision could be employed as a means of discouraging masturbation.[73] All About the Baby, a popular parenting book of the 1890s, recommended infant circumcision for precisely this purpose. Interestingly, a 1410-man survey in the United States in 1992, Laumann found that circumcised men were more likely to report masturbating at least once a month.
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/...ion/id/5389099

There's also the whole church thing which dates back thousands of years.

And even from a biological standpoint; removing thousands of nerve cells that elicit sexual pleasure, seems sort of anti-pleasure.

There's so much gray area, it makes this a fun topic. :D

For the record, I also agree there is intrinsic worth in practicing tradition. Circumcision was used as a rite of passage into adulthood, a symbol of virility, improved cleanliness (which probably is void by today's medical knowledge), and religious significance.

But hey, call me old fashioned....but there's something creepy about the first person who decided it would be cool to chop off part of their own penis or a child's penis...

Jason1 04-21-2009 05:43 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
HAHA OMG uncircumcised penises are sooooo funny!

thatmariolover 04-21-2009 06:55 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I'm anti-circumcision, namely on the fact that it's incredibly difficult for me to get off to sex due to my own circumcision. It usually takes 1-2 hours if I can get off at all (and that's WITHOUT a condom). Let's just say multiple partners, techniques, speeds etc. make little difference. Girls love it because I can go for so long, but it's really very frustrating and I'm fed up with it already at 23.

So yeah, regardless of the moral implications and such, I'm against it. It might take more work to maintain and your partner might prefer it cut, but ultimately I think circumcision is a bad thing.

I realize, though, that I have a semi-unique experience and that biases me quite a bit.

Typhoid 04-21-2009 07:35 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I'm pro-circumcision.

I'm cut, and I'm happy about it.
Clearly one side would never know what the other side is like, and nobody in the world will really say "Yeah guys, I hate the way my cock looks."

My kids are getting circumcised for the same reason everyone elses kid either did, or didn't - personal opinion.

BreakABone 04-21-2009 07:46 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I don't care either way.
As Typhoid says, very few people have personal experience as both so no way to objectively define which is better.
My parents honestly just got lazy, I'm there there 5th son.

Typhoid 04-21-2009 07:50 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakABone (Post 248961)
My parents honestly just got lazy, I'm there there 5th son.

They circumcised the other 4 personally?

BreakABone 04-21-2009 07:55 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoid (Post 248963)
They circumcised the other 4 personally?
Indeed they did.
No you dorkus, they just couldn't go through the effort I imagined.
Or don't know why the older ones are.

Acebot44 04-21-2009 08:13 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I actually have a friend who cut the snip snip treatment in 8th grade. Maybe I should ask him which he preferred...although that is still kind of young to remember

TheSlyMoogle 04-21-2009 08:30 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acebot44 (Post 248967)
I actually have a friend who cut the snip snip treatment in 8th grade. Maybe I should ask him which he preferred...although that is still kind of young to remember
I actually have a friend who got the snip at 17. He said it just was gross to have that much foreskin. He was in pain for like 2 months after the cut, but apparently he loves being cut now. He said if anything it made it more sensitive and feels better during sex.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakABone (Post 248964)
Indeed they did.
No you dorkus, they just couldn't go through the effort I imagined.
Or don't know why the older ones are.

It's because they hate you.


To add to my earlier point:

Said prior boyfriend would shower before work in the morning and come back. In the 7-8 hours where he was at work uhm said cock that was cleaned throughly (I know, I was in the shower with him most of the time and saw his cleaning techniques lol.) would smell or have developed "Smegma" and I would have to make him shower again before we could do anything. Slightly disgusting? Yes. Spontaneity ruined? Yes.

Also another tidbit about circumcision:

I was actually cut 3 times as a child. The first time when everyone normally gets cut right after being born, well the skin grew back. The next time was a few weeks later and the skin grew back again. So the third and final time my skin proceeded to grow back yet again, just this time it only grew back about halfway. So it's enough skin to pretty much cover me when flaccid and when erect it's like I've been cut all along. It's quite strange. I also have this rather large vein in a very awkward shape on the top of my penis that my family doctor says was probably a result of the multiple cuts. Not the vein, but it's strange shape and the fact that it's so large for a vein. It actually gets irritated during sex if I go too long. Well err not always, but well... nvm that's probably TMI anyway.

Bond 04-21-2009 09:01 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
TMI.

Typhoid 04-21-2009 09:06 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond (Post 248973)
TMI.


*Sings*

Teenage mutant informatiooooon.

Fox 6 04-21-2009 09:07 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
:lolz:

thatmariolover 04-21-2009 10:01 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Haha, sorry. Everybody was being pretty up front, so I just sort of tipped the cart the rest of the way over.

BreakABone 04-21-2009 10:21 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
This is a funny thread if nothing else... to see where SlyMoogle draws the line as to what's too much info..

Bond 04-21-2009 10:39 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
KG does make the most provocative / interesting threads...

Swan 04-21-2009 11:30 PM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
My balls are itchy.



Just throwing that out there

KillerGremlin 04-22-2009 03:24 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Hey, I appreciate everyone's honesty. Even TheSlyMoogle's honesty is a welcome addition to this thread. Come on, we're all mature we can have a serious convo :sneaky:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond (Post 248980)
KG does make the most provocative / interesting threads...
Haha, thank you? Just trying to keep things interesting...besides I think BaB gets sick of me exclusively bothering him on AIM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatmariolover (Post 248951)
I'm anti-circumcision, namely on the fact that it's incredibly difficult for me to get off to sex due to my own circumcision. It usually takes 1-2 hours if I can get off at all (and that's WITHOUT a condom). Let's just say multiple partners, techniques, speeds etc. make little difference. Girls love it because I can go for so long, but it's really very frustrating and I'm fed up with it already at 23.

So yeah, regardless of the moral implications and such, I'm against it. It might take more work to maintain and your partner might prefer it cut, but ultimately I think circumcision is a bad thing.

I realize, though, that I have a semi-unique experience and that biases me quite a bit.
I will say, to reassure you, that not all men orgasm every time they have sex. I think this is a common misconception, especially amongst the younger crowd. I'd say there is nothing wrong if you have sex and don't orgasm, as long as you still are having fun and your partner is too. I know how the sensitivity thing goes. Sometimes I just don't feel much and I can last for extended periods of time but it makes reaching orgasm in certain positions incredibly difficult. It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on your situation but you could try not masturbating a day or two before sex, and you can try achieving orgasm by yourself in positions you struggle with during sex. That's my best advice.

We have quite the melting pot of members at GT...no pun intended.

ZebraRampage 04-22-2009 03:39 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerGremlin (Post 249001)

I will say, to reassure you, that not all men orgasm every time they have sex. I think this is a common misconception, especially amongst the younger crowd. I'd say there is nothing wrong if you have sex and don't orgasm, as long as you still are having fun and your partner is too. I know how the sensitivity thing goes. Sometimes I just don't feel much and I can last for extended periods of time but it makes reaching orgasm in certain positions incredibly difficult. It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on your situation but you could try not masturbating a day or two before sex, and you can try achieving orgasm by yourself in positions you struggle with during sex. That's my best advice.
It has to potential to cause another problem too. Girls might start to think that they're not sexy to you anymore if you don't get off while having sex with them, but there's not much you can do if they're insecure about it.

Typhoid 04-22-2009 03:41 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Don't quote me on this, but I think that not being able to get off (Within reasonable "normal" time frame) is a type of E.D.

KillerGremlin 04-22-2009 03:45 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZebraRampage (Post 249007)
It has to potential to cause another problem too. Girls might start to think that they're not sexy to you anymore if you don't get off while having sex with them, but there's not much you can do if they're insecure about it.
This is true. The problem becomes cyclical in nature too. The girl expects the guy to orgasm, the guy can't orgasm and feels bad, it gets to his head and becomes more difficult for him to orgasm...etc.

KillerGremlin 04-22-2009 03:49 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoid (Post 249011)
Don't quote me on this, but I think that not being able to get off (Within reasonable "normal" time frame) is a type of E.D.
I think E.D. has more to do with not being able to get or sustain an erection. Not being able to orgasm is probably along the lines of some sort of orgasm disorder. If you're harder than Superman but you can't orgasm you don't have E.D. But don't quote me on that either, I'm not a sexual dysfunction pro. :p

The DSM-IV (book of psych disorders) has a thing for male orgasmic disorder (also know as "retarded ejaculation"). But that appears to look more at psychological effects. Dunno what someone would say just looking the physical aspect of the disorder.

Typhoid 04-22-2009 04:02 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
I cannot explain how hard I am laughing at the fact there is something called "retarded ejaculation."

Jesus, so many jokes.

Ric 04-22-2009 05:44 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakABone (Post 248964)
Indeed they did.
No you dorkus, they just couldn't go through the effort I imagined.
Or don't know why the older ones are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle (Post 248969)
It's because they hate you.
:lol: For screaming :lol: 'Threeeeeeeeeeeeeee Dooooooooooooooogg' over the radio when they were in the Yao Gui tunnles :lolz: Made them damn things come running.

Ahem... right. On a more serious note.

Guys if you ever suffer from something like this. And you will. Lots of people get it or have had it from time to time. Dont worry. S'all good. There is a way to stop the girl feeling bad about it. Get your tounge going... I dont have to tell you where the clit is do I? Be a pleasure giver. And I'll tell you what, when she sprays all in your face she will forget that you were getting nowhere with your cock.

Later on play around, have a wank, try and get things going again. Try talking to your partner about it. If you have the right kind of person in your life they will help you through it. You might even get some good head in the process.

Since everyone has been so upfront I'll have some balls and say I have not been snipped and I am thankful for it. I have quite a sensitive nob for it. My older brother on the other hand says he does not have as much sensitivity as he remembers although he had the snip at a young age, this was for some medical reason or another. He also reckons it makes it look bigger when flaccid.

My oldest brother had it done for religious reasons I believe. He has or will not discuss his views on it. Personally (and in the case of my younger broher) the reason I was never snipped is in it's own way, because of religion. My Fathers side of the family is Church Of England and my Mothers is Roman Catholic. This caused problems in the family and my parents decided that I should be allowed to make my own decisions on such things as I saw fit and when the time came.

Now we need more jokes :D and things to poke fun at.

Smegma :lol:

Ric 04-22-2009 05:51 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoid (Post 249018)
I cannot explain how hard I am laughing at the fact there is something called "retarded ejaculation."

Jesus, so many jokes.
Yeah that's when it shoots out and hits you in the eye ;)

BlueFire 04-23-2009 12:51 AM
Re: Thoughts on circumcision?
 
Let's just turn this into a casual penis chat thread.


I'm a victim of snipping, btw.. but I don't really care either way. If I have kids, I probably won't opt for circumcision. Looks too painful. :p


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