Sony Motion Controller
 

http://gdc.gamespot.com/story/625320...ntroller-qanda

Watch the video. Honestly looks like what I wanted the wii to be.

I'm going to stand corrected. If it works as well as it did in the video, then looks like this could actually be fun.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I had Moogle sent me the information while out, and got all excited, and I get home and find it is literally the PS3's version of the Wii.

Just for some examples, here is the line-up of games

B-Roll Footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W00x0C7JbIs

The Shoot™ (Working Title)


Move Party (Working Title)


Motion Fighter (Working Title)


Sports Champions


TV SuperStars


Now the Motion Fighter game looks pretty cool, but the rest of it right now, just looks like experiences we had when the Wii launch. Now, I'm a huge fan of motion controllers, but this really isn't tapping any new grounds right now. Just doing it prettier.

And just because Sony is always one step ahead....





That said, I hear that the next SOCOM supports it so wonder how that works out

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Looks a lot better than the wii, sorry earl.

DIE WII DIE!

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I said as much in my post. :P

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

It's an add-on peripheral. It will die (at least this time). Next?

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

It might, depending on the cost.

But I think odds are there are enough kids who got the wii 3 years ago who are old enough now to use the internet, find out about this, and bug the hell out of their parents for a PS3 and Motion thing. Probably sony will release a PS3/Motion bundle.

"BUT MOM IT'S THE NEW WII!"

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Oooh shiny.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

i'm suprised it's coming out for $100 when the arguably technologically more advanced (at the very least more innovative/intriguing) Natal was rumored to go for $50, which is honestly the right price if you are trying to get it into as many current owners as possible

It's kind of funny to see Sony just so unabashedly rip off Wii, but on the flip side that speaks volumes for the success of Nintendo's huge risk when they went in the whole waggle direction. Who knows, maybe a more core-centric company like Sony will be able to promote more waggle games that are actually, you know, deep and worthwhile and use motion controller in legitimately engaging ways.

Still way more stoked to see the lid get blown off Natal at E3 though. Now that Move is ousted, can we start guessing the real name for Natal? I can't think of anything clever, I'll leave that up to you guys :)

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

also, anyone else think that light bulb on the top of the "main" Move controller just looks absolutely retarded?

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Ahem. WTF is going on in this picture???

Yeah I kind of agree, but at the same time they look kinda good... I think overall I approve of them. Much better than what it looked like before.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Well, the shots looks pretty, but it seems except for the game with you in it, actually playing the games is a different story:

http://wii.ign.com/articles/107/1076600p1.html

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I'm sorry. I don't think I made myself clear enough about my reasons for being absolutely sure that this thing will fail. So here's a link to a blog post I wrote in which I examine in more detail the past history of consoles and take into account all the prior successes of add-on peripherals: http://www.purevideogames.net/blog/?p=292

If you have any actual responses to my point instead of vague guesses about a fraction of the gaming audience, do let me know.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I think this is a great idea.
Maybe it will force Nintendo to make an actual system next time instead of another gimmick which can be made as an add-on for the other systems.

Sony just literally gave a big "fuck you" to Nintendo with this, and I think it's hilarious.

Not only with a PS3 do you get a blu ray player, and a PS3 itself, you also get the option for a Wii, with better graphics.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

And worse games. Yeah, fuck you Nintendo! We don't need quality games, we got pretty lights and shiny things!

:D

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

It depends on if you consider it an add on, or a new type of controler.

I remember two generations ago, a certain company introduced the analog stick, and a certain other company adapted it late... and somehow it got popular enough with developers and users alike to the point that it became the "normal" controler.

Just saying..

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

This is slight revisionist history, the dual shock was popular, but really became the industry standard with the PS2 and not the PSX.

Very few games required its use on the PSX.

And this is an add-on, no if, ands or buts about it.
a)One it may take up to 3 controllers for you to play all Move games (some use two Move controllers, some use a Move and a subcontroller)
b)You need ANOTHER add-on to get it to work with the system (the PSEye)
c)Unlike the Dualshock, this is coming 4 years into the console lifespan
d) After showing their games, Sony doesn't look to be serious about it. I'm sure e3 will offer up more support, but right now looks like they are strandling the line between putting this as an option in their normal games, and that worked out so well for the SixAxis.
e)Price as a barrier to entry. Yes, if you want a full Wii-Mote these days it costs you 80 bucks, or if you are smart enough you can get two games, and a full controller for 120 bucks. The Move as stated before has 3 different setups so you need 3 controllers plus a camera, plus the console, and unlike the Wii none of that comes standard.

Will the Move fail? Probably not
Is it a threat to Nintendo? If these early games are any indiction, no.
People seem to think that Nintendo lucked out with all their games, but as Sony is showing and as 3rd parties have shown for the last 3 years, putting motion controls in a game is easy, balancing it so that it is both enjoyable and doesn't hinder the experience is tough.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

So are you saying this new controler will be required by more games on Ps3?



Psx Launched at the end of 94, the Dual shock launched at the end of 97. (Or for US, mid 95 for Psx and mid 98 for Dual shock)... 3 years.. 4 years... same deal imo. I'm guessing at the time the DS had launched, Psx had more units sold then Ps3.

As for your other points... true, it requires more pieces of equipment, and more money.. but in the end, if someone likes both what the Ps3/360 offer and what the Wii offers, knowing that Sony offers the same gimmick (and more), might play against Nintendo's sales.

Who knows though.. it depends on how they advertize it, and if they get a good rip off for the Wii sports/fitness games.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

That's actually kind of the opposite of what I'm saying.

The PlayStation Move won't take off because it isn't required with games.

Let's say, do you think games like Uncharted 3, next Ratchet, Modnation will use Move as primary controls? Or do you think it will be given an option?

How do you not see how you prove my point?
The DualShock didn't become the standard until the PS2, and was lightly supported on the PSX, with rare games like Ape Escape taking full advantage of it.

The PlayStationMove is coming a year later, and is building itself into an even smaller niche because unlike the PSX controller to Dual Shock doesn't have the same layout so its not like you can make a game that uses the Move like a normal controller. And yes I know of SOCOM, but meant moving something like UC 2 or Killzone onto it.

This is the part where you and to an extent Typhoid lose me on, after 3 years, do people still think it is the controller that sells the system? Do you think, people will be like "Oh motion controls and its HD!" and move on?

Let's look at the facts
a)The PS3/Xbox 360 have ALWAYS offered more on paper than the Wii. Better graphics, better sound, better online interface, DVD/blu-ray support, chat, etc, etc

b) People are buying/playing a game that looks like this,

Do you really think fancy graphics is the key to gaining that market?

c) Sony Move and to a certain extent Project Natal still can not replicate everything Nintendo does. Neither will be able to mimick Wii Fit based on current technology.

D)For all the crap Nintendo does wrong, what is the best selling online enabled game of this generation?

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

On a side note before I start... someone needs to delete whatever picture is stretching this thread out. It's hella annoying.

I think it will be given as an option, possibly. Just like the Analog stick was given as an option.


I guess that depends on your definition of lightly supported. Pretty much all the games that came out for Psx after 98 supported it in some sense. All the games that could benifit from different levels of movement speed. Was it a requirement? No. Was it supported? Yup.

The Dual Shock ended up being the standard for the Psx in general. I think it's more "revisionist history" to say the controler without the sticks remained the standard.. Analog sticks didn't just become Psx's standard, it became an industry standard. And judging off of sales, something else might be becoming the industry standard now.

But who knows... If you agree that the wii mote could become the industry standard, then you look at it more like the Psx Analog stick then I do. If you think it can't become the industry standard, then you're somewhat in my ballpark of understanding how Nintendo tried to avoid direct competition with MS and Sony by offering something different.

That's true.

No, I honestly don't... don't think that they'll just say it's HD and move on. But you can't deny that the gimmick of the motion controls is what makes the console popular, because as you're about to say:

And

So..

No, this generation motion controls are... apparently. Because it's definently not graphics, or hardware quality. And it also can't be game quality based off of scores.. things are more simple now... right?

That will be a harsh blow.

I don't know. And I don't care... I just know the average Joe who wants both what Wii offers and what Ps360 offers are going to be swayed more towards Ps360 opposed to buying two systems or just Wii after these controls come out...

But like I said in my last post, it depends on how they advertize it, and if they get a good rip off for the Wii sports/fitness games. I think if they can't minic at least the sports games, they will probably fail.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I deleted the massive one.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

And really, we don't need to go any further than this. It is an OPTION, and only an option, and that is what has and will always hold back peripherals.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Yup.. Just depends on if you consider it to be a controller and the emergence of a new industry standard or not.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Let me try and say this really, really slow.

It is a controller, no one will deny that, but it is also an add-on/peripheral, and even in best estimates, I see it selling under 20 million units over the lifetime.

It will NOT be a new industry standard, it won't even be the standard on the PS3, and that will the biggest problem with both this and Natal.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I'll disagree with you on that.

I mean, it's no secret that the PS3 and 360 are superior machines in every way to the Wii. And it's no secret that the Wii sells good to the target audience of kids, casual gamers and adults who don't like typical games.

However, I do think it will be the new standard.
Think about it from a company standpoint:

In adopting motion sensing add-ons to it's system, both Sony and Microsoft (Talking about Natal) are shanking Nintendo hardcore, because the one thing Nintendo had going for it that was different than the other systems - is now available on the two superior machines.

This will most likely force Nintendo to do something they haven't done in years - make a competative system technologically.

Because, I mean - what does Nintendo have technologically, that the other two don't, or won't within a year?

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Under 20 million? Wow.. such a bold prediction on your part.

I don't think so either (not this generation anyway). But I do think it will hurt Wii's sales, for every point your ignored.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Nothing. It will have the price point advantage, and that's it. And as I pointed out before, according to scores, it has the worst games. So again, as I said before.. if someone wants both the full Ps360 experience, and the full Wii one, but can only afford to buy one or the other (or doesn't want to buy both).. This controller increases the odds that they'd go for the Ps360.

Don't get me wrong though, the games that are supported by the devices will need to be decent.. and I think Wii sports is the real trump card Nintendo has... so they need to be able to rip it off to some extent.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I just want to clarify since it seems difficult at times for people to see my opinion from any viewpoint but Nintendo's but I'm not debating the success of the PSEye/Natal over the Wii-mote, that won't happen.

I'm debating the stance of things that will hold the PSEye back from any mass market appeal, and just to re-state those points.

1) Complexion, in order to play a single PS Move game, you need at least one PS Move and one PS Eye, neither of which comes in the box.
2) You are already looking at 300 bucks for the console, and at least another 40 for the PS Eye, and the controller.
3) Multiple set-up, just looking at the launch games, some use single Move, some use 2, some use one and a subcontroller. In order to gain the full experience from every game, you need at least 3 controllers.
4) It won't feature many exclusive "hardcore" games, just look at SOCOM, one of their key games, and it features DualShock support, many people won't bother to try it.
5) It is coming 4 years into this console generation, hell it could turn into a 10 year cycle at this point, but I still think its too late to change the momentum.
6) It is coming the same time as the NATAL and much like PS3/360 they pretty much cannibalize the same marketshare.

So that's what I got so far, on the Sony fence/MS fence.

It hasn't been a secret for the past 3 1/2 years.
It won't be a secret for the next 3 1/2 years.

I'm sure someone will pull some random numbers out, and I won't disagree that the Wii doesn't sell to different audiences, but has there been proof yet that they don't like typical games. I mean how is Wii Sports/Resort any different than a complition of Sports games? How are Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros and Smash Bros multi million sellers? How does a game like RE 4, that you can already play on the console, able to move over a million copies?


I think people have put too much faith into Nintendo only selling on motion controls, and the value of graphics to your average consumer.

And quite frankly, what 3rd party support does Nintendo have to lose? What major franchise will convert Wii owners into PS3/360 lovers? I mean its not like they can brand anything Wii X or throw Mario into it.

At the end of the day, the balance board and I guess the Vitality Sensor. And I'm not saying that its a game changer just answering your question.



20 Million is being generous quite frankly. The way I see it, a typical console generation is about 5 years, this one is going to go a little longer, so we push it to 6-7 years.

By the time Natal/Move launch we are 4-5 years into this generation. So they have a span of about 2-3 years to sell. Now if we were to be VERY nice to both of them, and say they increase at a rate of a million sold per month (which would be a much faster adoption rate than the PS3 or the 360 achieved thus far), you are looking at a maximum of 36 million NATAL/Move products.

Which as it stands right now, would be more than the number of Ps3 sold worldwide, and about a 95% adoption rate on the 360.

You show me a peripheral that has done anywhere NEAR those numbers, and you can tell me if 20 milion is a bold prediction.


At this point the only thing that is going to hurt Wii sales is Nintendo itself. Wii sales will slow and that's natural, being in its 4th year, but I really don't see PS3/360 being much of a threat.

It reminds me when people said that once the PS3 came down in price, everyone would see what a joke Nintendo was. The PS3 came down in price and released a new model, and was able to outsell the Wii once, and about 30k units.

The 360 has bested it 4 times, 2 of them were the launch months.

Nintendo outside of the typical $50 dollar price drop, has really done nothing else to try and get new players. They still have options to bundle up Wii Sports Resort/WMP with the console, to drop a black or multi-colored Wii, or who knows maybe this mysteriously Wii HD.

The Wii has Nintendo, it always will have Nintendo.
Love them, hate them, nothing them. They are still hands down, the best developer of games in the world, I mean if you want, just check MetaCritic, no one releases the quantity and quality that they do.

And this has been the question that none of you have answered for quite some time, who was holding out on the HD experience and decided to settle on the Wii?

How many people do you know or do you think was holding out for Motion Controls but with HD graphics? How big of a market share do you expect that to be honestly?

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

BaBs... Here's where I think you have things confused:

Me and Typhoid do not think that the content offered FOR the new motion controls will slow down Wii sales, we think that the whole package will.

"if someone wants both the full Ps360 experience, and the full Wii one, but can only afford to buy one or the other (or doesn't want to buy both).. This controller increases the odds that they'd go for the Ps360."-TheGame

Ask youself, what is the full Ps360 experience. What are the first things that pop out to you about those systems over Wii. And ask yourself what is the full Wii experience.. what pops out to you about Wii first that the Ps360 can't even try to emulate?

And I know you don't want to be objective about it, and discuss Wii's low scoring simpleton games.. But that is the proof that Wii's controls plays a bigger role then it's game quality.. So if you're not going to discuss that, then we're not going to have an honest debate about it. And yes Wii has Nintendo, and I've grown to respect Nintendo's ability to create good games.. but Gamecube also had Nintendo, so having Nintendo wasn't and isn't enough alone.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

And I'll ask you time and time and time and time again, why hasn't the Ps360 experience taken off this generation?

Has it ever dawned on people, that people don't care about all the flash? I think people hold out graphical abilities as this gaming crux, but it has done very little.

If nothing else, its word of mouth and hype, that has helped move games. Why MW 2 has been able to achieve over sales of over 10 million, why Halo and GTA have achieved great success.

And you can discuss the Wii's low scoring simpleton games, and I guarantee you like 90% of them are 3rd party games, who do you think are going to make games for the Natal and the Move?

Hell, the Ps3 is already lining up ports of Wii games!

Motion controls have worn off a long time ago, if there were not compelling experiences, people wouldn't continue to invest money into it. Do you not think there are dozens of Wii sports knock-off on the Wii? Deca Sports, Summer Sports, Beach Party, etc, etc

And they hardly make a dent, you think Sports Champion will make a difference? As it stands right now, it doesn't come with the system nor does it come with the controller. So on top of having to buy all the crap necessary you also need to buy a game for proof of concept!

I dont want this thing to be a horrible failure, but it will be.
The folks holding out hope that perhaps Nintendo got lucky with the Wii, that the only thing it has going for it in the past 3 years is motion controls is... I'm just gonna be nice here and say is friggin retard and haven't paid attention to anything that has happened in the last 3 years.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

They haven't taken off? Last I checked Ps3 has sold around 35 million units, and 360 has sold around 40 million... compared to Wii's 67 million. To put this in perspective... Gamecube Sold 21 million and Xbox sold 24 million... compared to Ps2's 142 million.

Ps3.. the worst selling home console of this Gen, has outsold N64 already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._game_consoles

Ps3 and X360 are FAR from failures. This is something I see Bond trying to tell you over and over.

And I don't get why you refuse to answer why you think Wii won. You keep going on the offensive and pointing out that the other two consoles are failures (which is factually incorrect). I mean seriously, what does Wii have that Gamecube, Xbox, Ps3, and 360 doesn't have?? Or what Ps2/Ps1 did have??

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I'll answer your question if you do me one favor.

In this thread, in any thread, find where I said that the 360/PS3 are failures, please for all that is holy, find me a quote where I state that they are failures.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

What did I just quote in my last post? You don't directly say it.. but you always want the discussion to be about what Sony and Microsoft did wrong opposed to what Nintendo did right.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

YOu are the most bone-headed, and retarded person I've had the honor to discuss anything with.

You and Typhoid are the ones who keep bringing up this PS360 experience, and how everyone will hop onto this PS360 experience.

And its been going on for 3-4 years, yes it sold better than most othr consoles, but it isn't lighting the world on fire. Especially being that one is the sequel to the best selling console of all time.

You folks act like this motion controller will finally change the world. That every single person who bought a Wii will find out that they have been ripped off, that they are playing subpar games with terrible graphics and not true HD/surround sound.

And its bullshit, plain and simple. People are so hung up with graphics here, that it hurts them to think that not everyone cares about it. How many hD games have come and gone and been the next best thing? How many do you think people will care about in a year? Two years? Next generation?

And let's say people do discover this, what makes you think, since you and Typhoid are so HUGE on the price difference, that buying a more expensive console on top of being add-ons, will make it a more appealing product?

Really... any type of numbers that show...

Hell if you want an example, blu-rays have been on the market for half a decade, HDTV peneration is at about 50% in the country, and let they are still outsold by DVDs like 3:1.

And as I tried and tried before, when I make this about the history of peripherals on its own, you go back to comparing it to the Wii.

So I'll pose this question, without some hypothetical bullshit you pull out of your ass, what makes you think that the PlayStation Move has a chance to succeed? And don't go on about the Dualshock becoming a standard because as I pointed out, that didn't happen until the PS2, hell even the Dreamcast released with a single analog stick.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Thanks.

-EDIT-

As for the rest of your post.. I answered every question here: http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...6&postcount=19

And as typhoid is about to point out, nobody says everyone will up and abandon Wii for the Ps360. It's just that it will swing sales for people who want both.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

That's not what I - and I assume 'we' - are saying at all.


I'll spell it out like this, imagine the future, if you will.


There is the Wii. Only a gaming system. Has motion control games. 150 dollars.
There is the PS3. Game system, dvd/cd/blu ray player, photo/music video sharer, HD capable from purchase, and has motion control games. 250 dollars.
There is the 360. Game system, dvd/cd player, music storage device, HD capable from purchase, largest online network for gaming, and has motion control games. 250 dollars.

Which gives the best overall value?

I'm not talking about now, which is what you need to understand.
I even went out of my way to say in a post that "This will force Nintendo in the future to actually make a competitive machine" - considering Sony and Microsoft will have taken everything away from the Wii that made it unique.

Will the Wii still get games, and sell units? Of course. Who the fuck here said Nintendo would shut down because of this? Nobody.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

I gotta agree with Xantar, BaB, and history and say it's an add-on peripheral and therefore will fail. I think things will be far more interesting in the next generation of consoles, which I predict will begin in 2012. I think it will be akin to the graphics going from the PSX/N64 era to the PS2/Xbox/GCN era, with motion controls being perfected by all consoles. Who will dominate then is the real question. Wii has already "won" this generation.

As far as whether _I_ will buy it, as soon as the PS3 Move has good games, I will be interested. I like shiny graphics as much as the rest of us, but I couldn't give two shits if the games are terrible. As of now, the impressions are that the games (with the possible exception of Move Party) don't live up to Wii standards of good motion games.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

This makes absolutely no sense. If you're not talking about "now," then when the hell are you talking about? Sony and Microsoft are releasing Move and Natal this year because they want it to sell well this year. It's not because they are trying to future-proof their consoles against Nintendo's next console. Yes, Nintendo is probably going to release a console with HD capability next time. And it will probably have improved motion control. I'm pretty sure they were going to do that anyway.

The only reasonable reading I can give you is that you think Sony and Microsoft are test driving motion control technologies so that they can use them in the PS4 and the Xbox 4Pi. But that would be stupid. Developing this kind of technology costs money, and when Move and Natal fail, Sony and Microsoft will be entering the next generation with a reputation for producing a copycat gimmick that didn't catch on. Just think of what IGN is going to say when the PS4 launches with a motion controller built in: "Sony has motion control in their machine. Let's hope it does better than the Move did."

Sony and Microsoft want their motion control devices to succeed this year. And the problem is they won't, no matter how neat-o you think they are.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

But that's exactly what you are saying, hell its what your last line is saying... of it won't abandon the Wii, people will just suport the Ps360 instead... how is that different?

See this is one of those rare discussion, where extended discussion leads to understanding.

Future-proofing their console is fine, hell I predicted like any intelligent person 3 years ago that motion controls will be the future, no one ever said that it had to be the Wii-mote specificially.

~Edit~
I think this article gets to the heart of my views
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/moving-on-article

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

Seriously? And you call me a retard??

What I'm saying is.. that if a person wants a Wii and a Ps360, and can only afford one or the other.. the addition of motion controls to the Ps360 will increase the odds that they'd pick a Ps360 over a Wii.

Let me say it again, since I've repeated myself so many times, maybe saying it twice in one post might help. And I'll even bold the key words.

What I'm saying is.. that if a person wants a Wii and a Ps360, and can only afford one or the other.. the addition of motion controls to the Ps360 will increase the odds that they'd pick a Ps360 over a Wii.

Did I say anywhere in that line that Wii will be abandoned? No.
Did I say people will stop buying Wiis? No.
Did I say people will take their previously owned Wiis and toss them in a trash can? No.
Did I say Wii is obsolete? No.
Did I say people will no longer want Wiis? No.

So to quote your old post:

I never said anything even close to this. Not even REMOTELY close.

Re: Sony Motion Controller
 

And just for fun...

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...2&postcount=39

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...3&postcount=34

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...6&postcount=26

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...6&postcount=19

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...8&postcount=17

If you don't understand what I'm saying, I can't help you.