Let's Talk Politics
 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...agency_iraq_15

Give me a break here. A "B" grade? The powerless UN is afriad to say anything bad about Hussein. Are they forgetting that Iraq has barred inspectors from searching military bases? They can't search the most obvious location of the weapons! They can't get interviews with the scientists outside of Iraq, and we all know about Sadaam's torture, these guys will be killed if Sadaam thinks they squealed. Of course they won't talk. Give them US citizenship, then bring them back and they'll spill their guts. And then again, this "cooperation" includes all these chemical warheads they "forgot" were there, and they still won't say where the ton of VX gas, and numerous other unacounted-for biological agents are. That deserves a B? Closer to a D.

Welcome to Europe. When push comes to shove, Germany and France will jump on board. And you know the second the US has won the war France will jump in and try to get good oil prices.

Bush needs to push this in his State of the Union, action needs to be taken soon. Iraq has a decade of practice avoiding weapons detectors, you don't think they know how to hide their weapons? They've done it for years! It isn't the best time for a war with Iraq, considering the oil problem in Venezuela, but the more Bush waits, the more people are afriad to invest and it's hurting our economy. We have more than enough reasons to go to war with Iraq, just go already.

I just finished my World Cultures class and now you just reminded me of it. I'm sick of politics.

Heh, I don't see what the hesitation to attack Saddam is. Just because we had attacked him before and stopped half way, doesn't mean we should give him a break just because he "went silent" for a bit...

The government is lacking tact... and lots of it! We need to slip out deals to all who support us, stating that they'll get the best oil prices.

Wars aren't fun and games, they aren't little talent shows to flash your shiny toys and weaponry. What ever happened to strategy (and dear God, what of this "strategerie"?). The United States of America is THE powerhouse nation, no matter how hard politicians and little outsiders try to get around it.

I know, you're thinking I'm some patriotic fanboy who jumped off onto a tangent... so I'll get to the point:

Saddam is a threat. He was about 12 years ago, he is now, and he will be even larger of a threat in years to come if someone doesn't act now. Alliances like the UN are too large... it's why the United States has become static in growth, and why countries separate in the first place. Due to little disagreements for personal welfare, someone like Saddam is going to be permitted to be the next Adolph Hitler. And... Hitler didn't need "weapons of mass destruction" to do some damage. The threat is not the opponents weapons, but rather our self-caution.

As for the inspections, I find them completely unnecessary. *shrugs* I find it all quite ridiculous. We're just buying more time for Saddam while pushing positive messages through the press.

In World War II, the world's threat was Isolationism... and Japan saved us all by giving the States an eye-opener.

In World War III, it will be the UN. For all the good in the world, I hope Japan does something. Heheh, their oil prices are so high, I could see it happen.


Well, that be my opinion. May I only need to speak it once.

Comparing Hitler and Hussein is a joke. Please do not every make that comparison again.

I guess you don't know how Hussein treats his people then? They are starving. Babies can't get milk, children barely have enough food to live the day. He bombs his own people and kills them, just because they are different from him. Hussein lives in a 100 room palace, while some of his people have no shelter. He's a cruel dictator that controls his entire country. That is reason enough to eradicate him from the face of the earth.

Yea, i agree with this one, Umm, Saddam, is just....a dictator, who has a reputation of being a "terrorist" Hitler, began to wipe out an entire race of people without thinking twice.

Oh, I'm sorry... I was completely wrong. Saddam has the potential to be worse than Hitler.

Of course, Saddam is nothing like Hitler as of now. But, was not Hitler also seen as a reliable leader before his large plans of racial extermination? Hitler was one of the most charismatic men of the world's history. Why, he was even a spokesperson for the Olympics, and the first voice on radio which extended past Earth's limits. Hitler's "goal" was quite noble in his mind.

What makes Saddam so different? Is it because he hasn't hurt you or anyone you know? Is it because you haven't read about him attempting to wipe out an entire race?

*shrugs* Well, let's see. Let all the world leave Saddam to his plans. Perhaps he won't turn out to be anything like Hitler. Maybe he's just performing his "experiments" not to test out the power of his weaponry, but rather to discover some peculiar cure to cancer!

Ooooh boy... "just a dictator". I suppose Hitler's start was that dramatically different. As well, I presume being highlighted as a "terrorist" isn't too bad as being highlighted as a "military and political genius".

It's not what Saddam has done. It's what Saddam can do. And... inspecting palaces isn't going to give anybody the heads up.


Personally, I believe the word "terrorist" has been far over-used by the press. Heh, they should try "alarmist" or "horrorist" *gasps*.

Hitler was elected by the German people.

I'm not trying to justify his cause, but the German people did democratically elect him into office.

So was Sadaam ;) Well... technically at least :D

And attached, for Joeiss, British intelligence report on Sadaam's crimes against humanity.

I couldn't get my computer to read the dossier (I need to uninstall and reinstall Acrobat, but am unmotivated to do so), but at any rate, as all of you are trying to defend why Hussain is like Hitler, you are ALL using one phrase that emphasizes the vast differences between the two: you keep saying what inhumanities Hussain is doing to the PEOPLE OF HIS COUNTRY. Hitler did things to people NOT ONLY in his counrty, but to people all over Europe. He killed people in Africa, in other Europian and Asain nations, he killed people everywhere.

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Originally posted by Bond
Hitler was elected by the German people.
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Yes, by his people, but not by those whom he was brutally murdering, and those whose lives he was otherwise destroying

Yes, I do believe we need to go to war. The UN is getting nothing done, aside from possibly giving Hussain more time, but we CANNOT act alone. We are the powerhouse, but we will fall if we have the ENTIRE world against us. I am for a just war, and though in some ways this idea seems like a crusade, there are few other options. I say few as I belive there must be some left, but it is a time to act.
However, as I said, we CANNOT afford to invade without other nations behind us. Bush seems war hungry, eager to fight, and that is not a safe state for the commander in chief to reside.

I never said he was elected by whom he brutally murdered.

Why dont we go to war blah blah blah...?

The answer to that question is simple...thousands of American lives will be lost. Is it really worth it? You guys wouldnt be saying ''oh just go to war allready!'' if you were being drafted or had to fight.

It's Hussein, with an "e." Anyway, what's your point with this? They're different? Or one is worse than the other?

Of course we have the entire world against us. Until the day comes when Sadaam kills million of Americans, we will have people against us. Most people don't think Sadaam's a threat to Americans. I guess we're forgetting that there's more ways to spread chemical weapons than through warheads. All you need is a small bag, about the size of a lunchbag full of chemicals. Sneak it into the country, hit the water supply of a major city, and there will be millions dead. But I'd rather have some people not like the US than see the piles of bodies.

There are many reasons the other nations aren't behind us, other than they're pussies. Russia and China have been trading on the black market with Iraq. And when the war is over, we will probably figure out France is selling them stuff they shouldn't be. No one wants Sadaam in power, but no one has the balls to say so. By saying so they would become a target of Sadaam's, and perhaps lose some deals on oil.

I am enlisted in the United States Marine Corps. I ship out August 11th, MOS 0300 Infantry option. Oh, and go to war already!

How long has Hussein been in power in Iraq? Hmm... Too long. And guess what? Hitler was only in power for what... 10 years? And he came so close to killing off the Jews, conquering Europe and conquering Russia. Hmm.... Saddam has killed his own people, and umm... Went to war with Kuwait, then got defeated by America... hmm... what else?

The reason why Hussein hasn't killed millions so far isn't because he hasn't had the inclination, its because he hasn't had the opportunity. He already tried his hand at genocide by gassing the Kurds. Now should we wait until he kills millions before we finally come to the conclusion that he could very well be the next Hitler? Your logic is flawed to say the least...

Hussein attempted to kill his own son, gets sexual pleasure from torturing prisoners (according to his former mistresses), his heads of state retire and then "vanish", his own people took over the southern portion of Iraq after the Gulf war only to be crushed and then systematically murdered, he a flagrantly ignored U.N. resolutions on inspections for over 7 years and oh yeah, there's the whole genocide thing I mentioned earlier.

But no, you're right, there's no way he could be the next Hitler... :rolleyes:

Here's a little history lesson for you: After WWI the world forces decreed that Germany could not have a standing Army of over 80,000 troops. Once Hitler was voted Chancellor he began forming the SS, which was technically a "political" group even though they trained as soldiers. There numbers were over 1 million strong. The world knew about the SS, knew that they were really an army, but sat around and hoped nothing would come of it. Look what happened there. World apathy allowed millions to be killed. Maybe we should start taking out lessons from history, instead of constantly being forced to relive it.

I recommend all those who don't believe we should go to war should get their heads out of the sand or whatever other dark holes they have them stuck into.

As for thousands of Americans being killed in the war with Iraq, did you even pay attention to the first Gulf war?

Actually, the SS wasn't a political party, it was a Police force put into place by hitler, to get rid of the original members of police " stormtroopers", anywho, the Nazi party itself was the political party you were speaking of.

please, and the world didn't sit around hoping nothing would happen, the allies had tried several times to appease hitler with Land, ( the Czech state for one) but he took there gifts, and then just kept taking more land, until eventually he invaded poland and well you know the rest

My original statement was made intending on what Saddam has done allready, not what he could do.


I see your point, but I still do not think that Saddamn is THAT big of a problem on the world scale.

Who was the head of the Nazi party. Kind of splitting hairs there, aren't we? :D

Quote:

please, and the world didn't sit around hoping nothing would happen, the allies had tried several times to appease hitler with Land, ( the Czech state for one) but he took there gifts, and then just kept taking more land, until eventually he invaded poland and well you know the rest

The Czech state wasn't the whole of Europe's to give in the first place. Thats like the U.S. having problems with North Korea, so we "give" them South Korea. Letting something happen does not a "gift" make. The whole of Europe, and yes the U.S., just let Germany take it and did nothing about it. They let the Germans annex Austria and did nothing about it. I consider this doing nothing. The world can't afford to do nothing again.

And Joeiss, Saddam is a huge problem on a world scale. Exactly who do you think funds terrorism? All the poor people who are recruited? Yeah, right. Iraq is a large, wealthy hostile state that controls much of the world's oil and will not hesitate to attack us conventionally or with guerilla/terrorist tactics once the get the opportunity. Sitting around and waiting for it to happen is silly.

LOL. You think that the US cared what was happening in Europe at this time? Haha... Your a comedian.




And I just think that North Korea is a bigger problem right now.

And as for my original post...



Take note that what I said was not in past-tense. That is, I never claimed that Saddam's actions were equal to that of Hitler's. Instead, I claimed that his potential could lead him to be equal or greater of a threat.



As for that little statement:

Hah... that's just the "self-caution" that would end up costing more lives than necessary! People who think that way are people who act after multiple warnings. What, must Saddam hit home to you personally before you feel he should be dealt with?

American lives is a small price to pay to get rid of a global threat. And yes, he does indeed have the potential to become a global threat.

Why? North Korea is just mad that they were part of the axis of evil and aren't getting any publicity. If we cut off aid to North Korea, the country is done for. Iraq on the other hand, still has oil.

Korea is doing is for blackmail. They're already trying for a peaceful solution to this.

Korea: We want more aid
US: Good for you
Korea: We're making nukes!
US: So?
Korea: We'll stop if you help us, pretty please?
US: Will you shut up?
Korea: Yes
US: Fine

Ok, I know you read what I wrote before you quoted it, but I'm not sure you're completely literate. The point of my post was the WE DIDN'T CARE. Europe didn't care either. THAT WAS THE PROBLEM. We let Germany become a global threat.

When Germany marched over the Lorrain, he knew quite well that he could not support a full invasion of France at the time. he gave his officers strict instructions that if they were to face ANY resistance to turn around and leave. They received NONE.

Europe and the U.S. let Germany become a global threat and therefore we all have a part in the millions of lives that were lost. If we let it happen again, there will be no excuse. A great man once said "Evil is doing nothing in the face of need." We may walk down old roads if we do not respond.

No, you misunderstood me. US was not involved at all with European interests at this time. Yet, you said that US let Germany become a global threat... But no... They didn't really let them, because they weren't even like... I don't know how to say it... Umm....


Lets just put it like this. Britain let Germany become a global threat, not America.


Oh.... And on a modern subject, I was just wondering what will happen with France and Germany. Since they are both against military force against Iraq, what do you think US will do about them? Do you think that US will say that since Iraq was supporting terrorists, and that France and Germany was not with US, that they are with the terrorists? I mean... You know how Bush said "You are either with us or against us"... Will America attack Germany and France?!?!?!?


Sorry, these are just my random thoughts. I haven't put too much thought in them.

It's just more of the same old "We weren't involved, so we can't take the blame" talk. By doing nothing, and by having no relations with Europe; by practicing isolationism, America did, too, "let it happen".

I could easily go around and say "Africa let it happen too"... but that wouldn't seem right for only one reason. Africa didn't have the ability to do anything about Germany.


*shrugs* Korea is like a child with a new toy. Their threat could result in one of many outcomes... and I doubt that one of the outcomes would be bombing their supplies. Maybe Korea will bomb one of our allies... that'd start up mass cooperation/retaliation.

But, I feel that if all attention is put on Korea, and Saddam is ignored... then Saddam will have the free time to plan what he so desires to.

Saddam has had since 1997 "to plan what he so desires to."

So let's give him another decade, that's real smart :rolleyes:

I did not mean it like that. I just wanted to inform Rndm Perfection that Saddam could have planned stuff allready.

Joeiss, who is to say he HASN'T? Should we just wait until he does poison our water or gas us? By your logic we'll have to live though another 911 before you'll feel comfortable about acting on anything.

Strangler... I have not once said in this post that I do not want America to go to war with Saddam. Saddam is a problem, I just do not think he is the biggest.

NJorth Korea is not stupid. They just want more aid. Its a card game and they're playing their hand as best they can. Meanwhile Hussein is a few cards short of a deck. I wouldn't put anything beyond him, even if he knows it will be self-destructive.

Hitler NOT Like Saddam? That's incorrect if you ask me.

When Hitler came to power in Nazi Germany, he was "just a Dictator" he was a speaker, and elected by the German People. It was only after he began racial extermination that people REALIZED he was a threat. It was only after Japan gave us in the USA a Wake-Up calll that we were NOT immortal, and that we had become complacent!

Hitler moved into other coutnires and started mass-genocide the way he had already done in Germany, had the US not been attacked on 12/07/42 we'd all be under Opressive rule right now.

What happened after WW2? The USA, over time, became Complacent again. We iugnored MAJOR Terrorist threats and look what happened, Osama Bin Laden killed 1000's destroyed the Twin Towers, and tried to wipe out the Whitehouse!

Saddam is "Just a Dictator"?

A man who was 'Just a Dictator" was elected to Nazi germany, he became more than "Justa Dictator"< he becmae a fanatic, a Genocidal, racist fool who killed millions in many countires.

If we leave Saddam alone long enough, he'll have gased mre than the Kurds, he'll attack the USA again and other countires, and we could get into WW3 because of him!

He needs to be removed from power, BEFORE he can achive the type of Genocide that Hitler achived, he's not there yet, but he's definitley close, and if we leave him alone and treat him a s'Just a Dictator", we'll find ourselves on the verge of Mass-Genocide, just like we did in the 1940's.

What's that saying about ontlearning form history... Oh YEAH! THOSE WHO DO NOT LEARN FORM HISTORY, ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT, TIME AND AGAIN.

My Point: Remove Saddam from Power, before he LAUNCHES any Nukes and Chemical weapons he has, BEFORE he becomes as bad as, or worrse than hitler was in 1942.

We can NOT become complacent again, look where it got us, Pearl harbor, 9/11, it's because we were too complacent. We felt immortal, and now we're relaizng we AREN'T again and THAT is what hurts as and helps us at the same time.

If you want to avoid another World War, Saddam needs to go, North Korea needs to go afterwards or crumble the way Russia did.

Once we can get UN support, maybe FULL PROOF of Saddam's WMD's, and sedn it to the UN we'll ahve it.

The UK Supports us, but Russia and Germany don't, if we go in with only UK Support, maybe the Russians and Germans will follow, maybe they won't.

Keep in mind Russia has NO MONEY, ffer them a US Greenback and they'll join us, Germany may be harder to convice, but they MUST be in ful support of an attack on Iraq and it MUST be soon, or we WILL face problems of mass genocide.

Just becasue Saddam isn't broadcasting threats through the UN the way North Korea is, doesn't mean he's not a threat.

In fact, Bin Laden has stated he'd back Saddam and vice-versa, what if North Korea Joins them? Is THAT enough fo a threat to warrant an attack?

MY point is this, we may have to have the world hate us until 2004, becasue if we don't do anything about Saddam, who will?

There was a famous quote, I can't remerb how it goes, but it was based on the people who did nothing during WW2 until it was too late, Pika knows it by heart, he should post it.

What if Saddam gets a few people into the USA? What if he slips them something WORSE than Anthrax to send through the mail? What then? Do we sit around and say "We're working on it?", I think not!

I belive supportis needed, but we may only need the UK on our side to start, once we go in with ICBM's exploding in Saddam's face, France and germany will follow.

Do you think the average German Citizen is AGAINST war with Iraq? Of course not! They hate their leaders as much as we hate ours.

Bush has a policy in place "YOu gas us, we Nuke you!" I think that's a good idea, Saddam Gases us, we Nuke him, support r no support, it would show we're willing to win any war with him.

As for what to do with Saddam if we catch him? Don't kill him, exile him, and leave him out of the rest of the world.

If Saddam is left a s"Just a Dictaor' he will become more than such, he won't just gas Kurds, he'll gas US citizens, then UK Citizens then German and French and the rest of the world.

I beg you not to become complacent again, after 9/11 we should be goign after Saddam,e specially if we belive he may be harboring Bin Laden!

Gekko is right, we may have to look like fools before we can say "I told ya so!" to the rest fo the world.

As for not comparing Saddam to Hitler, look at how Hitler gradually started his mass-genocide campiegn, it started in germany, than it moved to the rest of the world, look at Sadddam's Campaign, he'll kill anyone who doesn't kiss is ass. Look at who he's killeed so far. It's the MINOIRTY in his country! Who did Hitler Kill first? The Jews, the Minority!

This is no differnt than WW2, the names have changed, that's it! Saddam is ggoing to be just as bad, if not worse, than Hilter if he gains more power, and we can't allow thatto hapen.

Who would want a textboook that reads "Just as with Pearl-Harbor showing the USA they needed to enter WW2 when they did, an attack from Saddam Hussein had shown the USA they needed to enter a third world war before peace could be achive."

I wouldn't want that in our textbooks or any others. Saddam may be "Just a dictator" right now, but leave him alone and he will be the worst enemy the USA and the rets of the world has faced.

North Korea is just being stupid right now, they'll get theirs if we go to war as well, and everybody knows that, but right now Saddam has been in power FAR too long, and he's going to only get worse until we say it's time to remove him, the USA may not be able to declare war, but this doesn't ahve to be offical, there is no OFFICAL war on Terrorism, there is aa "War on terrorism" in the sense that we are going to fight it with Bombs and guns, but not in the sense of a formal declaration.

Whatever we have to do to stop Saddam is what is nessecary, the Draft will help, and if we go to war with North Korea they'll probably follow Saddam.

Right now North Korea has only started to show defiance, but Saddam has done it for years, it's time ot remove him form pwoer, I'm with Gekko on this one, Saddam has to go before the world does

It's not that as much as we'll never get to say "I told you so." Anyone who denies that Sadaam is a threat is being completely ignorant, the¥ just don't want to do something about it. Ignorence is bliss. Stay out of things, and it'll all be fine.

The records are there. We know Sadaam's history, and we know he has weapons now. As Powell said, we have 15 countries with us, however, there are still those who oppose. There are some people like that, who don't think anything is worth war. Why can't a chemical warhead ever land on the anti-war protests?

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he will fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - John Stuart Mill

Now, the problem with attacking Iraq is tha we will never know what would have come. Those who understand Sadaam Hussein know that it's probably a good thing. But those Anti-Americans that oppose the war will always be there saying the war was for oil, and to finish Daddy's job. Idiots. Either way, I'd rather have to listen to some damn liberals bitch than see the destruction that would come from Sadaam.

Blix:

"The (Iraqi weapons report) document indicates that 13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi air force between 1983 and 1998; while Iraq has declared that 19,500 bombs were consumed during this period. Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about 1,000 tons. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, we must assume that these quantities are now unaccounted for."

Doesn't that bring happy thoughts.

So citing that Blix has stated that weapons are unnaccounted for and Iraq has been extremely uncoorperative, exactly what evidence do we need to find?

People are looking at this wrong. Iraq had sanctions and terms of surrender placed ON THEM, which they have blatantly ignored for years. Its Iraq's responsibility to prove their innocence, not ours to prove their guilt. They are guilty and have been since they violated their terms of surrender, we just do not know exactly to what extent.

I like Oliver North's view of Germany and France. The Axis of Irrelevance :)

Wooh... thank you for posting that. Heh, I liked the comedic touch to the whole report. And, best of all, that last bit reaaally ties into this debate we've been having.

Argh!
 

Someone grab me my gun, I got my hit list! :mad:

More stupid Anti-American bastards decided to publish their list of names going against President Bush. Stupid bastards are also supporting the draft dodgers :mad: Here's an idea, let's not kill Sadaam, let's kill these ****ers first :mad:

Just saw the poor dumb bastard running the show on the O'Reilly Factor. Runs again at 11PM EST on Fox News, fairly early on in the show. Argh... watch the show, then give these dumb ****s a piece of your mind :mad:

NION :minigun:

:usa:

Oh and it was a real act of honnor to bomb civilians twice with nukes after a military base was attacked.

Not only military places were bombed at Pearl Harbor. There were also some civilian targets that the Japanese hit. This is why you didn't see USA being charged with War Crimes, because once Japan did it to USA, it was an open playing field.

Shut up, go back to Canada you damn communist.

:sneaky:

I wonder what happened to the War in Afghanistan. It suddenly dissapeared of our TV screens, infact it was never much on the news after the initial months.

There is more that meets the eye.