State of Israel
 

What do you think of it? Is it proof that they are still God's chosen people or are they just boiling with hate for Palestinians because they're Muslims?

:argue:

Re: State of Israel
 

Ah yes, this topic always gets 'um fighting.

Okay. Here's an interesting article about it. I don't necessarily agree with everything this guy thinks, but shutting people up because of their beliefs often leaves a voice out.



Israel and Palestine

Re: State of Israel
 

If you're going to post anything as reference material, please try and consider the source first. I do not consider ANYTHING on David Duke Online to be credible.

Just because has an agenda you don't like doesn't mean he's not telling the truth. I often see statistics there.



Either way, no one's posting anything so, I might as well introduce somebody's idea.


And another thing: what is credible material? Is it because it doesn't have Uncle Sam or TV's stamp of approval?

First I would try looking for a site was wasn't sponsored by a former Grand Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan.

That should have been your first clue. :retard:

Re: State of Israel
 

I would reply... but I can't stop laughing... I suppose this will be my reply.

Re: Re: State of Israel
 

They both feel God gave it to them... both are children of Abraham. They are fighting for what God wants for them... the Jews don't hate them because they are Muslims, they hate them because they feel they are on their land.

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Everybody just wants to have a place they can call home. There is still room on Earth for each to have a home of their own, this is just a matter of stubborness.

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This is more than a "I just don't want to what you tell me" type thing. These people believe that the land that they're fighting over was given to them by God. This is their land. That's why they're willing to fight and die and kill for it.


*shrugs and walks away*

Re: Re: Re: Re: State of Israel
 

Actually if you haven't noticed yet the Earth is becoming very crowded. And you actually believe that because someone is on "your land", you have a valid reason to send your army and put 1000s out of their homes, killing people in the process?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: State of Israel
 

If they were truly faithful to God, they would accept the fact that he created all the lands, not just that plot.

The only thing causing death here is a lack of faith and stubborn minds.

No... You don't get it... Its not that they believe God made that land so its their's. They believe God actually gave it to them; said "here, this is your's. I am giving it to you."

While yes, I think everyone would be better off if they just got over it and stopped fighting, mere stubborness is not why they won't do so.


*shrugs and walks away*

Re: State of Israel
 

Well obviously the problem here is poor organization skills. Unless someone recorded the day this event occured and witnessed the situation for themselves, then that reason is invalid and cannot be used as testimony for ownership of the land. Case dismissed.

If someone punches me in the face, and I want to press charges, I'd better hope someone besides myself witnessed the beating or else that person didn't do a thing to me. I'm sorry, but unless people stop lying, that's the way our world must work. Case closed.

.... Are you being serious or are you joking? The answer decides whether I think you were an idiot for posting that or not.


*shrugs and walks away*

Re: State of Israel
 

I'm serious, people can't use unwitnessed/unrecorded events as testimony for ownership of a piece of land.

Often times peoplke wonder why Israel is so quick to use force...

Well lets see... 3000 years of persecution is a start, then they passively stood by while the holocaust happened hoping for the best, then they are given Israel and people have been trying to kill them ever since.

I'd be pretty trigger happy too.

Re: State of Israel
 

And who was granted authority to "give" land. I don't remember my parents voting for someone who would be responcible for giving and taking land from people.

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GOD!!! They both have "records" saying that God gave their people that land. Its in their scripture.

They believe the land's their's like they believe God made the universe.


*shurgs and walks away*

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Wouldn't fighting over the land with one another (whom both believe God granted them it) be defying God's word by trying to take the land from someone else who says God gave it to them. Both parties are at fault as far as I'm concerned and both have rallied up enough bad sin to send the whole human race to the underworld.

Each side believes that God didn't really give the other the land of course. That's why they're fighting. Whoever finally wins and gets the land will have had God on their side and prove that they were the true recipitents to the land.


*shrugs and walks away*

Re: State of Israel
 

Call me an elephant if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that suggest that God advocates violence and is bias against certain cultures and races?

Who would want to believe in a God like that? :unsure:

He is biased towards those that believe in Him of course. That's why those that believe in Him go to heaven and those that don't go down to hell.

Now, the Jews believe that that Israel is their Holy Land. Given to them to protect them from persecution, the exodus from Egypt and all that. Then they were kicked out and kept out and mass murdered and...

Jews have a hard time..

I'm not sure why the Palestinians believe its their Holy Land, just that they do...

Anyway...

I'm not saying I support what they're doing or believe that God would rather have them kill each other over the land, I'm just saying I know what they believe and what they're thinking.


*shrugs and walks away*

Re: State of Israel
 

If God truly cared for them, he would have given everyone an equal and identical piece of land.

But by giving two people the same piece of land, that sounds morelike a publicity stunt just to get more followers/attention.

As well, as giving some people more food than others. Is this the kind of person we want to admire? The kind of person we want to worship? Hmm...

Re: Re: State of Israel
 

Evidently those that follow Islam. Read the Koran, there are many references and passages advocating violence against infidels. Infidels are those who do not follow Islam, so that would be every other culture there is. If you like I will post them.

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1. Its Quran I think. Qu'ran... Something like that.

2. That would not, normally, include Christians or Jews. They're caste system is set up like this (top = best bottom = worst)

"True" Muslims (those born into Islam)
"Reformed" Muslims (those who have changed into Muslims)
"People of the Book" (Christian and Jews)
"Other" (everyone else)

I think so anyway. I may be wrong... but I'm pretty sure I'm right.



*shrugs and walks away*

"Unless someone recorded the day this event occured and witnessed the situation for themselves, then that reason is invalid and cannot be used as testimony for ownership of the land. Case dismissed."

I beilieve the Jews use the old testamate as their ownership documentation when God gave them the land and took it from the philistines (palistinians). Now, If your not a bible/torah (or whatever it is) goer, thats fine. Try telling the jews thats not good enough. Im not sure about muslim stuff, Im sure they were told its theirs as well.

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That reply alone is enough for me. :)

Re: State of Israel
 

Persecution. Nobody hates someone else for no reason, you know. There's always a reason behind hatred.


Violence against infidels in the Koran. How about the Bible?
Deuteronomy 7:1-6

I haven't got time to spell it all out(classes are waiting), but it says the Jews(his chosen people) must utterly destroy the many nations around them and show no mercy. Break their altars, dash their pillars into pieces, and burn their images. If that's not violence against infidels, then I don't know what is.

Re: Re: State of Israel
 

Mickey, please keep your thinly... and I mean THINLY veiled anti-semitism off of these boards. I bet you're itching to tell me why the holocaust was justified.

If you are going to quote scripture, please QUOTE SCRIPTURE. I have no need of your version, especially from someone who thinks David Duke is a valid source of information.

Anti-Semitism?
No. I'm not going to tell you why the Holocaust was justified because it wasn't. A man with an intense amount of hatred got into a position to do something about it. What I was reffering to was the death of God's Son, Jesus Christ.


Deuteronomy 7:1-6
When Jehovah thy God shall bring thee into the land wither thou goest to possess it, and shall cast out many nations before thee, the Hittite, the Girga****e, the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, seven nations greater and mightier than thou, and when Jehovah thy God shall deliver them up before thee, and thou shalt smite them; then thou shalt utterly destroy them: thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them; neither shalt thou make marriages with them, thy daughter thou shalt not giveunto his son , nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For he will turn thy son away from following me, that they may serve many other gods: so will the anger of Jehovah be kindled against you, and he will destroy thee quickly. But thus shall ye deal with them: ye shall break down their altars, and dash in pieces their pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou art a holy people unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God has chosen thee to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples that are on the face of the earth.

Yes, that seems to be very different from what I posted.
The point to be made here, which I guess you want a full explanation for is :


So what if the Qu'ran advocates violence against infidels? If you believe it you will do what God tells you to do. If he wants you to kill infidels, it's obviously in his plan, IF YOU BELIEVE AND WANT TO REMAIN IN GOD'S FAVOR. Now, if these Jews said, we can't do it, these people have lives and families to take care of, children to watch over, what would God say? He told you something now you go and do it. The same way they belived is the same way these Muslims believe. They have to carry it out the way they see it without compassion that God does not see compassion for especially since they see themselves as the living God's true life.

And yes, I do consider David Duke a credible source of info. First time I went to his site, I had never heard of him. I only heard of his actions afterwards.

I'm going to assume that you also think Malcolm X, another of my faves is Anti-Semitic, too?
What about Christians? Are they thinly veiled Anti-Semites? After all, each time Christ's death is mentioned it mentions that a certain people were responsible for his death.
John 19: 1-22
Luke chapter 23
Mark chapter 15
Matthew 26: 47 to 27:43


I just didn't want to write it all out because I assumed that a Bible would have been picked up and read for yourself.

Re: State of Israel
 

I posted that in response to another post asking what kind of God would advocate violence. I know that Allah did, so evidently does the Christian God. I wasn't making judgements, just stating facts.

No comment needed.

I don't know about Malcolm X as I never studied him, but I know many of his followers are very much anti-semites. I do know that Malcolm X for much of his political life considered pretty much everyone who wasn't black a devil.

Some Chritians are anti-semites. Some aren't. Its not uncommon, but that also does not make it forgiveable. I certaintly am not one to spout off about how Christians are infallable. They are not, but I can also see that Christianity has been far more of a boon to the world than a detriment. Meanwhile the strict tennants of the Koran and abuses of it by its followers have kept much of the Middle East mired in violence and poverty for many many years.

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Here's a statement I believe accurately describes what he was about from 1965:

Whether you're educated or illiterate, whether you live on the boulevard or in the alley, you're going to catch hell just like I am. We're all in the same boat and we all are going to catch the same hell from the same man. He just happens to be a white man. All of us have suffered here, in this country, political oppression at the hands of the white man, and social degradation at the hands of the white man.
Now in speaking like this, it doesn't mean that we're anti-white, but it does mean we're anti-exploitation, we're anti-degradation, we're anti-oppression. And if the white man doesn't want us to be anti-him, let him stop oppressing us and exploiting and degrading us.

Was that quote from before or after his pilgrimmage to Mecca? I know his views changed greatly after his pilgrimmage.

It's actually from 1964, the same year he went to Mecca. Before or after I don't know. 1965 is the year this was printed. Doesn't really matter because he was still against oppression, he just accepted the fact that maybe blacks couldn't do it all on their own.

Well thw whole idea of gaining acceptance through isolationist views is pretty silly. I liked his views after his trip to Mecca, but before he was more than a little suspect.

More than a little suspect? Please explain.


And how is gaining accpetance through isolation silly? That's the same thing Israel is doing. They don't want any Palestinians so they're doing what they feel is necessary to keep them out even though the Palestinians were already there.

In any case the state of Israel wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for the Holocaust. It was obvious they were not going to stay in Europe and the US simply didn't want to deal with mass Jewish immigration. They set up Israel and made everyone happy.

garbage
 

Israel kills Palestinians and it means nothing. Palestinians retaliate and they're so evil. They don't want suicide bombs just give the Palestinians the state they deserve, and dismantle every single settlement in the west bank. If black people in this country waited for white terrorists in the south to stop violence, then they're might still have been segregation in this country. There are about 3.8 million Palestinian refugees. 3.8 that have been kicked out of their country and still can't return.

Re: garbage
 

There are so many things wrong with your atatements I don't know where to begin.

Israel - You kind of have it reversed. The violence did not start from Israel, but they sure do know how to finish it. Israel even gave land back, and Palestinians used it to further their terrorist attacks. We are going to have to face the truth that those that are extreme enough to be suicide bombers do not want a compromise. They want all of Israel, and Israel ain't going anywhere. The end result? The violence will continue and there will be no end.

Also, Palestine isn't even a country. It never has been.

Civil Rights - Yes, black leaders had a lot to do with the revolution that too place in the 60's, but do you really think anything would have happened if sympathetic and influential white people hadn't helped? Nope. Plus there were many black people back then and even today who are fans of "separate but equal".

The world isn't as black and white as some would like to believe. Israel isn't evil and Palestinians aren't good, or vice versa. There are many shades of gray in between that confuse the issue until you realize that there is no simple solution to this, and there might never be.

Re: State of Israel
 

Your the fan of Malcolm X, you should know. Before he went on his trip to Mecca his views were far more extreme and violent, and many would even say racist. That I consider suspect.

It comes down to safety. The Palestinians that they have allowed to live in their country are at best hostile and at worst actively participating in terrorism. We in America become outraged when ONE TERRORIST ACT is perpetrated on us. Imagine being Israeli and living with it on a daily basis.

And why is there even a comparison? Israel attacks specific targets while Palestinian terrorists blow up cars in busy streets filled with innocents. There is no comparison.

Many of the Jews who were in Israel at the time of Patriation were already there. Patriation began back during WWI and there were large Jewish populations before then. Many more came after the war, its true, but basically the UN drew lines that already existed. Its not like the UN just said "ok, everybody out, you Jews step right in."