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I saw the matrix-spoilers
this is basically going to be a thread for those who have already seen the movie and don't wanna see any spoilers. because this will be loaded with them.
scroll down if you just wanna see my end feeling after seeing it. I am totally pissed off that it didn't answer any of my questions. DONT SCROLL IF YOU WANT PLOT DETAILS!! THERE ARE SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now i know why the wachowski brothers are never seen anywhere. they know that after people see this latest movie, that they'd be immediately assassinated. there was no plot (just a war with machines, and that is it) and there are no questions answered. they end up right back in the place they were in the first movie. or, why didn't neo just go through the other door in revolutions. it would have ended the same way. trinity dies anyways, why the hell? the only reason the one was there was to end the war... MY @$$, he just post poned it, the machines still rule earth. what a crock! and how does neo still have powers if the "real world" is not the matrix. i'm sticking with my original theory because i believe it. personally i think more matrix movies without keanu reaves and mrs moss are going to suck a fat one. i am totally confused as to why this movie was even made? they would be in the same spot if neo had just chosen the other door, cept now there are a few more zionites, whom are all going to die anyways, because they are trapped in a busted up hole with no ships to fly out! and how did neo destroy smith? why couldn't he do the same thing in the first matrix, why did smith come back, and why wont he come back again? is smith really the oracles son? all this movie did was make me ask more questions! NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
just as i predicted long long ago.
And as i had stated many times, the Matrix shoulda been left as 'the one' The whole reason for the 2nd and 3rd wasnt to tell a story, wasnt to complete a vision that they had of the matrix. wasnt to answer questions. --- It was for money, plain and simple. ppl who loved the first got suckered into seeing the 2nd and 3rd. |
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I actually never really liked any of them...Havent seen the third one...and wont until it comes out on video, and even then I might not...
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Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
WTF???
Crash, Null... I strongly disagree. I liked the first movie, but I LOVE the story for Reloaded and Revolutions (and to an extent, ETM and the Animatrix). Reloaded and Revolutions make me enjoy watching the first movie more than I orgiginally did. The first movie is the only movie in the series that lacks a point, and it left a thousand more questions than even Reloaded. Null, how can you say that these movies weren't made to complete the vision of the Matrix? The first matrix story was incomplete, period. Also, Crash, how would you have written the script? Your questions are more about "how" instead of "why". What did you want, another 10 minute scene with the Archetect explaining all of your little questions? By Neo going through the other door in the matrix things would have been much different. I can't even believe that you made that comment. It would have been a real interesting ending to show exactly how human life was on Earth even though what happens next is obvious :rolleyes: Last time I checked there are 100,000 friendly machine ships in Zion with them, that's the way out. As for Smith coming back, DUH. If you would have watched reloaded, you would have had the answer LONG ago. When Programs face deletion they can chose to return to the source and die, or they can chose exile. The Oracle is the mother of the Matrix, that's why he called her "Mom" Any other questions, shoot. In my opinion Revolutions was a good movie, and if you want to count reloaded and revolutions as one movie (which they pretty much are), I say it's the best sequal to a movie that I have ever seen. |
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as far as the 3rd completeing something. It completes the 2nd. i give it that. and its not that bad of doing it. But as far as the matrix story, it ends nothing. it solves nothing. They are, 'almost' in essence back where they started. its almost as if he did go thro the door and zion will have to be rebuilt, only now with the same people. the 2nd and 3rd dont have the 'feel' the matrix had in the first. which is understandable, because they built neo up to be so unstoppable in the first. they had to find crazy ways to make him get challenged. 2 and 3, expacially 2, feel more like thier own movies, then a continuation of the story. i think 3 helped, and i right now believe i liked 3 better then 2. But neither come close to the feel of the first. Me personally i woulda liked to see them truly end it. and maybe of added a couple more twists. (i knew it wasnt going to be a matrix in a matrix because that theory became so overly used and obvious) All in all it just feels like we went on one big loop and are back where we started. i KNEW they would leave it open tho, because about a year after the first, i read that they were given the go for a total of 6 matrix movies. That doesnt mean they have to make them all, more that they just wanted to end it in a way that they could continue if they wanted. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
there is still the fact of HOW it ended...too openly if you ask me, cause the oracle said that the world is going to stay like that "for now"...would've been much better if they had shown the planet like '1 Year Later' when you can acually see the sky and you see Robots and Humans working together, and then they show Morpheus and the Crew standing over the graves of Trinity and Neo beside each other...that wouldv'e been a better ending....yup...other then that, it was a good movie...
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Crash's original plans aren't entirely blown, as there's potential for another sequal that has room to expand on the Architect and Oracle's amazing form of control, the prophecy and dual-matrix. |
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yep exactly, and i didn't hate the movie, i hate that my questions weren't answered. i loved the movie, and will see it 2-3 more times this november/december. just know that they aren't doing another movie makes me crazy!!!!!! the only reason they kept the matrix alive is so they could keep making more money off it by releasing info bit by bit and milking every dime outta it in the form of books, movies, short flicks and video games... they basically are forcing me to begin playing matrix online when it comes out.... curse them, that is what i hate. (love hate relationship) lets take a look at themes in the movies... running through all three movies are choice, but mostly in the first one, the second movie is about purpose, and the third movie is about ________? also i did the fact that i dont understand the name of the movie until i watch the movie, who said this, revolutions not as in a revolt (like revolutionary war) but in revolving cycle... |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
I thought the movie was good, but I don't understand what the little girl is doing there, she is kinda creepy, and the Oracle said something about her making the funky sunrise at the end.
Also, I know that they had to close it someway, but I think we all wanted another twist that would close it in a radical, complete sort of way instead of "Oh, it starts again." However, this time Zion is not warring with the machines, so a lot is different. It means that the Zionites don't have to be running from Agents or trying to free minds and stuff. Also, at the end battle, do all the Smiths everywhere mean that Smith had consumed everyone and every program in the Matrix? |
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Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
I hated hated hated hated hated hated hated hated hatd=ed hated hated hated hated hated hated hated hated this movie. Yes, the incredible special effects and the battle at the docks was great, but other than that it was total garbage, and I mean TOTAL garbage.
How even the Wachowski brothers could watch this movie and feel it was worth putting in theaters blows my mind. It is self-important melodrama in its most ugly form. And the worst part is you get the idea that the brothers actually think that they are making an important film with some sort of meaning while you watch this crap. You want examples? See below: ***SPOILER*** 1) Trinity Dies - Her death scene is so drawn out and tedious that someone screamed "JUST DIE ALREADY!" in the movie theater and whole theater CLAPPED when she finally died. I mean, we knew nothing about her character, so why should we care? 2) Neo is blinded and scarred, Trinity asks if he is ok, and he says YES... He was just BLINDED and MAULED, but he's just peachy I guess, and then he cracks a joke about Trinity having to drive. This drew some groans from the audience as well. 3) Keanu Reeves - His performance reminded me of an oak tree in the back yard. This man is completely incapable of showing any kind of emotion and yet he is a huge star in Hollywood. Amazing. 4) Nonsense masking as meaning - The Wachowski brothers have become so full of their own s**t that they think that all the tired, overblown crap that they have the Architect and The Oracle spew is actually some of of cryptic geniuos. Its not. Its babbling to make it sound that way. Also, the Oracles whole "when you know it you'll know it" lines got old during the first movie. ***END SPOILER*** This is one of the worst movies I've seen in a very long time. Please do not encourage Hollywood to spend their money on this absolute crap and DO NOT SEE THIS MOVIE. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
After thinking about it more, I've drawn a new conclusion about the series...
.... It is near perfection. It started as a traditional sci-fi series, introducing new ideas, new effects, and an excellent cast of characters. As it progressed, the end became foggy, and many questions arose. However, in the end, a certain purpose to the series is reveiled, eliminating questions. I think one reason why so many people hate the final film, is because it proved that they didn't know jack **** as to what was going to happen... that is, they didn't foresee it, it's out of expectation compared to their conclusions drawn from the original "feel" of the movie. The movie is religion. That is, every part of the film has a purpose, it is based on some form of religion. Neo being most likely Jesus, the messiah. Err, I gotta jet, school... talk more about this later O_o. |
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I haven't seen any sequels because I thought the first was so crappy, but you may have a point with Neo being the Messiah. Neo gets betrayed by one of his guys, like a Judas Iscariot, he's supposed to be a savior, in the first movie he has to be 'reborn' (baptism or being born again), Zion is such an important city. Plus I hear there's the Mark III No. 11 written on their ship. It says, "Whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and said, 'You are the son of God!'" I could probably say more if I saw the latter films... I hear there's also some Buddhist stuff, but I dunno.................. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
The Wachowski brothers were never subtle about using Neo as a Chirst figure. That was obvious from the first movie. Just because they beat you over the head with metaphor does not make this a good movie series.
Also saying that people did not like it simply because they didn't know what was going to happen is silly. A good movie SHOULDN'T let you know what was going to happen. I didn't like the movie because after the second installment I no longer CARED what was going to happen, for the following reason: 1) Poor character development. We're told that Neo and Trinity love one another, yet there was about as much heat between them as there is in the center of a snowball. Also, what do we even know about Trinity? 2) Poor acting. Keanu Reeves is completely incapable of showing any kind of emotion. Thank God for Hugo Weaving's wonderfully over the top Agent Smith. He carries Keanu to s few tolerable scenes. 3) Horrendous Dialogue. Too many examples to show here. A main reason for the poor character devlopment. It was all plot with no story, and there is a difference. 4) Redundancy - They LOVE columns in rooms, and love blowing them up even more. It got old in the first one. and the biigest flaw... 5) Pseudo Intellectualism. I found the exposition to be more tedious than enlightening. This was an excercise the Wachowski brother's intellectual ego's, and not actually intellectual. The plot was good, but the execution of that plot was beyond bad. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
the movie and the series for that matter is FAR FAR FAR from perfection.
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Matrix Reloaded= Conflict of cause and effect vs choice Matrix Revolutions= Choice The first movie could have been interpreted as choice before we saw the second two movies, but Reloaded reveals that they never had a choice and they were just following the Machine's and Program's orders. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
what was obvious to me was that neo didn't love trinity nearly as much as trinity loved neo... whats up with that? killing trinity was the stupidest this that could have happened in the movie. well not as stupid as killing neo with no explanation. but how clear is it that he actually dies? not real clear.
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i can honestly say i am a real fan of this series, or rather i was, until i saw this movie.... i disagree with the people who say that the second is the worst, i think that this one surpasses it's flaws by far. NOT ONLY did it leave a million questions unanswered, but it also poses new ones, and just about kills any possible REAL imaginative story line. After all this surreal bulls**t, where he wakes up and its not real, where he doesn't know whats going on, where nothing happens as he expects(the architect), after all that, they let the FINALE go as unimaginative as possible. i mean honestly, who here who saw it can say that they weren't waiting, or even HOPING for an end that makes you go "HOLY S**T!!!!". i know i was...and then it ends with everyone being happy and a temporary peace, and i did go "HOLY S**T", but for the completely wrong reason!!!! Not only that but for example why was light coming out of neo's eyes and mouth in the real world when he killed smith??? they built me up SO much in the second with the introduction of the exile programs and different sides of characters, and then they smash you right down when all they do in the third is give you exactly what your expecting on a silver platter. people DON'T WANT THAT!!! people want a movie that will make them go WOW when they leave the theatre, something that they can talk about on the way home in the car. All this movie did was keep you complaining on the ways it didn't make sense. Like i said, i WAS a fan of the matrix series, but i have seriously reconsidered it now that i've seen the crap they've made it into.
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Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
I wish that both movies were released as one 5hr Movie. They had given us too much time to hype up and build up what the second half of the movie was going to be. Maybe there could have been an intermission after reloaded, or they could have released both movies at the same time and let people decide when they want to see the second half in their own time. Either way, they had given us enough time, and a revealing enough trailer to spoil Revolutions.
We have to look at it for what it is, simply a good movie. If you would have seen it all from beginning to end without enough time to predict what was going to happen next, Revolutions would be the best part of the movie. Predictable or not, it had me on the edge of my seat more than Reloaded and the first Matrix combined. Revolutions is the king of unforgettable parts too. Can't get mad at the movie for not being what you wanted it to be, in the end it is just a good movie. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
Can someone explain to me why the hell all the smiths exploded? other than that i though the movie was good, except for it started a bit slow.
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Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
when he took over neo's body, which was connected to the machines, the machines rewrote/deleted his program, and all the humans were unplugged, but the machines survived (a.k.a. the oracle, seraph, and the girl)
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Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
:D
You people just don't get it. (except The Game and Random) I loved it. I loved reloaded. And I loved The Matrix The whole is perfect like random said. I couldn't give a **** what you people think. Go watch Charlie's Angels or something. |
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yet oddly the ppl who like it are the ones that liked movies like charlies angles and underworld and **** like that. Matrix 3 has been getting some of the worst reviews across the board out of the entire year. the ppl who liked it are the ones siting how great the action is and blah blah. from a technical stand point. i havnt seen dialogue this bad since Star wars Ep 2. The one person here who i can honestly say knows what he is talking about is Strangler. i dont know about the other movies he likes, but from hearing him talk about this one my 'first impression' is that he has a great taste in movies. |
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I respect The Matrix, as it's religious embodiment was overshadowed by the intillectual conflicts that so many fanboys had troubled with. In the end, it was a very complex manipulation of religious tales. Neo died for a reason, Crash. If Neo is comparable to "The One" of Christian belief, then he died rightly so. The Matrix was a beautiful (err, well.. not at parts, heh) collaberation of science and religion. Yes, Science Fiction meets Religious (Fiction?). It was already known in the first two films how much the series had to do with religious tales. The whole cast of characters had names of religious importance... and Zion, of course, as well. When the series started, however, everyone was too interested in the new ideas; everyone was interested in the mind-numbing idea of having our minds in the captivity of an illusionary world. The Alice in Wonderland allusions made viewers feel like the real world was some magical, foreign land... and that is all. What if, perhaps, it was not the Matrix and the real world being compared by the Alice and Wonderland allusions, but rather Science and Religion, or even our universe and the afterlife? It's possible. Keanu Reeves had said in an interview that the brothers intended on making three movies when they made the first. They must've known what they were doing when they created the first movie... especially since you can see the Architect's TV screens right before Neo is interrogated by Smith. The sequals were more than worthy, and more than worth my time. Charlies Angels, on the other hand, is "absolut" trash. And Underworld, I have not seen... haven't even heard much about it O_o. But, of what I've heard, a lot of people have become obsessed with Vampires and Werewolves. I accept their nonsense and dreaming, but the movie doesn't sound respectable. |
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In the end the Wachowski's had an excellent plot, but did not have the chops to put it together in an artful fashion, much like Underworld. Instead of taking some of the time from the overly long action sequences to build up their characters are allow the story to further the plot, they preferred to rely on effects and action to sell tickets and then proceed to "tell" you the story in long, convoluted monologues that attempted to exchange vocabulary for inspiration. The first rule in any creative field is that you should "show" your audience your inspiration, and not "tell" them. You can tell me that Neo and Trinity are in love, but you can't make me believe it by just telling me and you sure as hell can't make me care by having them kiss a lot. In the end the Matrix 2 and 3 illustrated why some writer/directors NEED the support system that studios can provide. There was no one to keep them in check. The Wachowski brothers became lost in their own universe and with no one to bring them back, they only served to babble to their own egos. If you like the this movie, thats fine. There are plenty of bad movies that a lot of people like. You may like this movie, but do not mistake it for good cinema and surely not art. You want an incredibly well put together trilogy of epic films? Lord of the Rings. Peter Jackson is a friggin' genius. He mixes CG, forced perspective and splices together endless miniatures for one purpose... to SUPPORT THE STORY, not replace it. He understands that for us the audeince to care about the characters in the film, we must first get to know them. We must feel loss when they fall. This is why I like his extended versions of his first film much more than the theater edition. He spends more time developing the characters. Someone asked what movies I like: well here are my favorites no particular order: The Seven Samurai (Kurosawa was the greatest action director ever) Ran (pronounced Raan) Akira Miller's Crossing The Lord of the Rings Series Braveheart Raising Arizona The Field Yojimbo Unforgiven The Quiet Man Hard Boiled 2001: A Space Odyssey Nosfersatu (both the original and the Werner Herzog remake) The Prophecy They Live (best B movie EVER) The Shining Seconds American Psycho The Manchurian Candidate I guess I could go on, but 20 is enough. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
I thought this movie was awesome. I loved the whole trilogy in general.
It had everything I could want in a movie: -Action -A touch of romance -A compelling plot (though not exactly clear) The thing I loved the move about this movie was the fact that it made me think. What is going to happen next? Why did that just happen? How are these two things connected? I love movies that actually make you think. I can tell you that in two years, I will still remember these movies and think: how/why did that happen? Personally, I'm not a real big fan about movies that are just so overloaded with action that you sit just sit there after the movie and say, "Well that was cool, what are we gonna do for the rest of the night?" Well, don't get me wrong, I guess I do like those kind of movies, because they are cool, but with a movie like The Matrix you leave the theatre with just a little more wonder/amazement/curiosity/religion or whatever you get out of the movie. A lot of my friends that saw it said that they didn't really like it. I suspect that they are saying that just because it didn't end how they wanted it to, or that it didn't end answering all your questions. WELL TOO BAD!!! Get used to it! I don't wanna hear you bitch and moan about how your questions were unanswered, or how the love scenes were ghey, or how it didn't end the way you wanted to. *OFF TOPIC* What really bothers me is how people can say that The Lord of the Rings movies suck ass. THey are some of the best movies I have every seen. I beleive that FotR and TTT have been voted onto the IMD top ten movies of all time list. I know a lot of people that say that they suck becuase they didn't include such-and-such scene from the book, or such-and-such character wasn't in the movie. God damnit people, the books were great and they had a lot of details. No movie, especially these, could get all of the detail out of the book into the movie. JUST LOOK past the minor omitences and just admit they are very good movies, because they are just that, great movies. Hod Hamnit, now I'm all pissed off. I gotta get to sleep. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
I just got back from the theater. I'm really tired so I'll chime in with my opinion later.
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Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
It's funny how people try to analyse movies like they were big shot hollywood critics, eh, strangler?
Anyways, if you would actually watch the movie, and let yourself into it, instead of looking at everything else around and behind it, you would enjoy much more. Yes the acting is kind of dull, but I think it's fits the context perfectly. Neo and trin, knew they were going to die, so don't expect them to be all romantic and stuff. I don't know why the 1st episode was so good. It was all the same actors after all. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
the first lord of the rings is in my top 5 movies, but the second one is a really big dissappointment for me. of course nothing like the book, the first movie was almost identicle to the book. they added stupid things, and they removed important things
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Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
Null, I don't like Charlie’s Angels and I have never heard of underworld, yet I love Matrix. It's not cool to make generalizations like that. [I won't mess with your Rep unless you mess with mine]
Rndm_Perfection, you make great points [+Rep] The Strangler, you are full of it. If Matrix isn't art, what is? Matrix had huge special effects, but that doesn't take away from the story. Matrix was meant to satisfy the people who don't read too deep into movies, and the people who read way too deep into the meaning of a story. None of the movies on your list can touch Matrix in Action, because Matrix showed us things that we have never seen before and leaped beyond our imagination. You can't tell me you imagined the battle at Zion being done any better than it was. Then, under all the action, there is a story that makes you think harder than any of the movies on your list, and that has multiple meanings. I can't see how a fan of movies in general can not like this film, unless they are into chick-flicks (which you are not, because I like the majority of the movies on your list). [I won't mess with your Rep unless you mess with mine] Yoda9864, I agree with you. I'm not into complete action movies that don't make you think. Matrix just happens to be a mix of the best action (imo), and a story that made me think harder than any movie in my life. What was seen in the Matrix can never, and will never be copied without being called a rip-off. [+Rep to you] Neo, You are The One [+Rep] |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
Yeah, I'm full of it. I concentrated in Film in college and have seen probably 50,000 films from around the world, so I must have no idea what I'm talking about.:rolleyes:
Like I said, the Zion battle scene was amazing. With that I agree. I even said that the plot was excellent. But incredible special effects and a strong plot do not make for a great movie. You still have to execute the STORY and then piece everything together. Not to mention you need to get strong performances out of your actors to make you care about them. I don't blame the actors so much, though, as they weren't given much to work with in terms of dialogue. The dialogue in this movie reminds me of Sylvester Stallone in Cobra. Its that contrived. I even stated that its ok to like theis movie, but do not pretend to think that it is good cinema. Its not. Its self-indulgent tripe that pulls more on the lebido than the heart. The first movie was great, but the last two have degraded considerable with each release. Stop being defensive and see it for what it is. |
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The Strangler, that it is your opinion that the second and third movies degraded, some will agree with you and some wont. I am one of the ones that dont agree with you. I see it the other way but thats just my opinion.
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Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
a lot of you let your opinions take way to much into this.
whether you liked it... and whether it was a technically good movie... are two WAY WAY WAY differnt things. strangler thinks more along the lines i do in this. in viewing movies in a more technical way, looking for the things that make good movies, bad movies, good acting, dialogue, things of that nature. no one said likeing the movie is a bad thing. But aside from special effects, the movie wont win many awards. and Morpheus, learn not to take generizations so personally or life is going to get tough bro. |
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Null, You lost me. What makes a movie technically good?
The Strangler, Special effects and plot may not make a movie technically good (whatever that means), but it makes a movie memorable. This is what separates Jurassic Park, Star Wars, and ET from movies on your list. I saw nothing wrong with the acting in the movie. The story was meant to have holes, and most likely couldn't have been executed any better without dumbing down the action or adding hours of more film. |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
Might as well chim in here while I'm around.
It seems to me that many of you went into the movie wanting to like it no matter what, and the fact of the matter is you did. No matter if you forced yourself to or you geniunely liked it. I don't know. I do think that Null and Strangler looked at a movie in a more, don't want to say objective minor, but I guess they looked at the film for it's own merit before applying it to the trilogy. As a side note, has nothing to do with the rest of this, I recently purchased American Pyscho and that is one bad ass movie. I recommend any one to see it. And a final note, isn't Justin gone yet? |
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Like I said, all of your arguments as to liking the action, which was well done, and the plot are fine. You are free to love this movie if you like. My point of contention is when people try and paint this film as a work of art along the lines of Lawrence of Arabia, Lord of the Rings or the first 2 Star Wars. Its not even close. Those movies were cinematic operas. In comparison to those films Matrix Revolutions is the equivalent to watching two monkey's fight while dressed like Sheakespearean actors. They try and look like they're smarter than they are, and its even somwhat entertaining to watch on a visceral level, but don't mistake it for creative inspiration. |
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Whatever, Everybody has their opinions. I've been bashed for liking SW, so I've been desensitized to all bashing. lol |
Re: I saw the matrix-spoilers
I noticed a lot of ppl sayin they had unanswered questions but never actually said what they are. I also noticed that at school a lot of people who hated it (some of them who loved underworld null O_o ) didn't understand it. Who knows, there might be some kind of connection there. So, how bout u guys who say you have the unanswered questions ask them and we'll try to answer them for ya. I found one i think i can answer :D
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