[Xantar]

Originally Posted by manasecret

There, that's exactly what I want. Just a reminder to each person before they go on a witchhunt blaming everyone. You're reading too much into what I'm saying. All I want is patience and prudence and understanding of the magnitude of the disaster. You say that no one is arguing the fact that it was a natural disaster, but I think people seem to forget that fact.

I'm sorry, but I have to ask again: so what? If everybody were to recognize and acknowledge that Katrina was a natural disaster, what exactly do you expect to happen? You haven't answered that question. What specifically do you expect would be different? Would fewer people be sacked? Would that be fair? Would we be better prepared for, let's say, a tsunami hitting Baltimore as a result of acknowledging somehow in the back of our heads that this was not human made? What is supposed to be the result of your reminder? Patience and prudence and understanding? Please explain to me precisely what that means.

I just don't see where this is all supposed to be leading. Even supposing that we've all somehow forgotten that Katrina was a natural hurricane, that's not the reason why there is a lot of false finger pointing going on. That's merely because a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats are covering their asses. What does the fact that Katrina was natural have to do with that? It's like saying that if some joints fail on a rollercoaster causing it to derail and kill dozens of people, we should all step back and remember that they were killed by the laws of physics.

In the end, if the system works and all goes well, the people who screwed up will be held responsible and fired (and probably have their public reputations torn to shreds). I can't see that your point will make any difference to that one way or another except perhaps to allow some people to duck responsibility and claim, "Well, it's not MY fault! Nature did it!" At best, your repeated posts here haven't struck me as anything more than meaningless platitudes and will continue to do so.

I think, though, that if we would help and volunteer and give just as much as if they were white, then what difference does the "deep down" region matter? It seems you're talking about the unsconscious mind vs. the conscious mind, which for me wouldn't make any actual difference in how I helped. I personally don't think that it took George Bush's conscious mind three days to click in and say, hey, these are people, too. Maybe it did, I don't know, but I don't think so. And that goes for everyone who was helping.

If you disagree fine. I'm not trying to argue but I guess when you're on a message board that's the only way it comes out. I was only angry because I took personal offense to what I thought you were saying that I would have volunteered more and given more money or whatever if they were white.

I never said that Bush himself was racist. I'm only suggesting that if there's a subconscious reaction and the dozens upon hundreds of people in the government involved in disaster relief all have it, could that possibly, maybe, change something about the response?

In any case, you still have every right to be offended seeing as I'm calling your posts useless.

Originally Posted by Can't spell Inigo heh

I just believe that for the most part our schemas have moved beyond the simple category of race, and have adjusted to make allowances for class.

Oh, I have no doubt that there's a lot of classism going on in our society. I just don't think that necessarily excludes racism as well. Why can't there be both? Surely we do a lot better now than we do fifty years ago, but just because we don't see very many lynchings these days doesn't mean racism is all gone. If you really need evidence, though, go read up on some stories about Middle Eastern taxi cab drivers after 9/11.

And let me be clear, I don't mean to say that racism is necessarily oppressing minorities exclusively and in all ways. And I also happen to think that our stereotyping and schemas work out ok among those of us lucky enough to have a strong education and lots of exposure to all kinds of different people.

Unfortunately, that doesn't really apply to the majority of Americans.