[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Bond

Can there really be innovate software on a lowballed console?

Short answer yes.
And the Wii has proven it time and time again.
Say what you will but Wii Sports will probably go down as the most important game of this generation.
I point to this game that very few people have played on the Wii, but Godfather Blackhand Edition has spoiled sandbox games for me. The interaction that game gives you can not be mimicked on any other console. And it really and truly adds to the experience. I played godfather before on the PC, so it was my second time through and the controls in the game were so damn solid. It will be tough to go back to something like GTA.
Yeah, people will talk about pretty graphics and advanced AI but adding an element of interactivity is also truly innovative.

When did it become acceptable to have passable graphics in the post 2D area? It's interesting how Nintendo has been able to reduce expectations. Nintendo gamers are now satisfied with "passable" graphics, while Sony and Microsoft continue to release the best possible systems all things considered.

You know I won't argue graphics. There has really been two games that have stunned me from a visual point of view this gen and that's Gears of War and Uncharted.
But assuming that won't satisfy you. I think the Wii does a fine job when it is trying Galaxy and Brawl are really nice looking games. Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes ultize an interesting style. So yeah the graphics aren't the greatest, but they damn sure haven't blinded me yet.

This point irritates me the most. It is Nintendo's responsibility to acquire third party support. If this wonderful store opens up, but the store doesn't seem to be getting any customers, is that the fault of the customers? No. That's not how business works. It is the responsibility of Nintendo to get the third parties on its system.

Well, your analogy is flawed in my opinion.

The better analogy would be if you opened up a store that millions of people flock to all the time. And one or two company is doing a killer in that store, but then you have other companies who are in the same business. They want their stuff to be seen but its the damaged goods. The clothes with the ripped tags or the loose threads.

In other words, Nintendo has set up an avenue for people to sell games. And don't say they don't sell. Guitar Hero 3 did well. Red Steel. Rayman. Sonic. No More Heroes beat expectations. Resident Evil 4 and Umbrella Chronicles. So it is very possible for 3rd party companies to get sales.

I really think both parties are at fault. I mean do you think it was a struggle for Sony or MS to get support at the start of this gen? What have they really done to deserve it? MS should have continued support because of great software sales, but really the PS3 continues getting games even though it had a very slow start and even worse software sales.

If that type of logic works, how the hell does Nintendo combat it? We have the best selling console! We have the lowest entry fee! A lower fee to make games! And they still can't get anything. It really isn't much more they can do besides playing developers to make games for them.

Originally Posted by Bond

Can there really be innovate software on a lowballed console?


When did it become acceptable to have passable graphics in the post 2D area? It's interesting how Nintendo has been able to reduce expectations. Nintendo gamers are now satisfied with "passable" graphics, while Sony and Microsoft continue to release the best possible systems all things considered.


This point irritates me the most. It is Nintendo's responsibility to acquire third party support. If this wonderful store opens up, but the store doesn't seem to be getting any customers, is that the fault of the customers? No. That's not how business works. It is the responsibility of Nintendo to get the third parties on its system.

Originally Posted by Professor S

Nintendo has abandoned the hardcore gamer. I'm not saying that was a bad business move, it obviously wasn't, but its one I have a hard time accepting with my personal game preferences.

I've had this discussion with Aladuf on AIM before it did not end well. And I doubt this one will as well.
But I HATE HATE this damn line of thought.
Nintendo abandoning the hardcore?
They have released a Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Smash Bros and tons of other games in a faster time than any of their other consoles that I could think of.
They've released a handful of games like Wii Sports and Wii Play and people just assume the sky is falling down.
Nintendo is Nintendo with the same arsenal that is GROWING not shrinking. We haven't lost any of their core franchises yet and to be honest, I think with the exception of TP for some reasons, they have all been some of the best games in their franchises.

I love literary games. To me gameplay and gaphics are avenues to entrench a player's psyche into a new, strange world where the fantastic is possible and the mundane is never tolerated. Books engage your mind. Movies add the eyes and ears to the experience.

But games...

Games can fully exploit all of you senses to make not merely an observer of epic storytelling, but make you a PART of it. Mass Effect is a perfect example of this and to date is my favortie game of all time, by far, and Ive played almost every major game released since PONG (benefit of being an old man).

Sure this is a matter of taste, but story is one of the reasons I haven't played MAss Effect.
If I wanted to get involved on such a level I would read a book or watch a movie. I won't say much more on this subject as I haven't played Mass Effect, but storylines in games tend to more often than not piss me off because they disrupt the flow of the game so much.

I need to play a game and feel enriched for having experienced it. I prefer my games to be more Pablo Picasso than Jim Lee. I felt that the industry was moving in that direction last gen, with games like KOTOR, Shadow of the Colossus, Oni and Okami. So I suppose a little of me is bitter that Nintendo seems to have bucked that beautiful trend.

You know for every Citizen Kane there is Cinderalle. Why is it, that these two type of games can't co-exist without one being the downfall of the other?

Will having simpler games hurt the rise of stories in games? Will games becoming grand and epic really stop people from playing Tetris?

This is gonna come off negative, but has anyone ever realized how selfish gamers can be. I understand its a new hobby, but a LOT of people seem to hate any move in a direction that isn't what they want. But like books and movies and any other form of enterainment, you pick what you like and don't worry about the rest.

I don't care how many romantic comedies come out in a year, it doesn't hurt the action movies I watch. The fact that Nintendo is embracing a different (and growing culture) shouldn't offend you because it isn't where you want to be. To be fair, I don't think you have been on Nintendo's page since the n64 as far as I could tell. And that's ok, maybe its time you file for a divorce.