[sdtPikachu]

RSI hell here I come... (pun not intended by the way)

"From religions we aquired: our time scale-- 7 days in a week, 12 months in a year, AD and BC"

Pointless - our calendar is based on the seasons, not by religious edict (apart from the seven day week thing, which is conveniently just the simplest way to split up a 28 day period). Did you not find it odd that non-christian cultures also developed the 12 month year etc etc? Month - 28 day lunar cycle, which has been messed about with by various people (esp. the romans) to fit in with the rather chaotic mess the whole calendar is. In 10,000 years time our calendar will have changed. In 10 million years it will be totally different.
AD and BC are totally arbitary scales, and have no meaning really. They're just what we in the western world mark as "ground zero". Most major cultures not based on the bible have different ground zeros.

"We got explorers finding new worlds under the pretense of evangilism."

Also curiosity, also greed, also being a stubborn bastard and saying "look you fools, the earth is round and I KNOW I can get to India this way much quicker... damnit, what's this America-shaped thing I've run into?"

"The reading and writing system we have today was used by the clergy to teach Biblical scriptures."

During the dark ages, the church was in total control and no-one aprt from religious leaders and members was taught how to read or write, so the church could remain in control. It was onlt during the Renaissance and with the advent of the printing press that education of the masses became feasible (with, I might add, the stauch opposotin of most of the church - they thought the idea of someone reading and understanding a copy of the bible in their own home was blasphemous).

"As stupid as you may think religion is, noone can deny that it has done huge things to shape the world as it is today"

Yep... as well as propagating moral codes and establishing the initial strategies for a stable large civilisation under the pretext of fear, it has also been responsible for some of the greatest wars and atrocities in history. It's certainly shaped the world alright.

"you cannot overlook the fact that we would not be anywhere today without religion. "

Not a fact. See some of your later posts regarding what you cvlassify as "fact" and "not-fact." Like me, you have no idea what the world would be like today if religion had never existed. Naturally, the initial reaction you will have is that it would be a much worse place. I wonder.

"that progression may well include a logical explanation for the creation of the universe with or without God."

It may indeed, in which case you'll find me saying "Oh well, looks like I was wrong then". It may also lead to an explanation for everything religion has answers for that science doesn't... yet...

"True faith is believing in something that you cannot prove."

And that's why I have no true faith. The point of this thread, I think. Although you can look at it objectively and say that nothing can be proved, and we just believe we exist and see the stuff we see. But I draw the line at believing things I can see and touch.

" Jesus wasn't just "made up." I know that for a fact"

How? Do you know something not even the top biblical scholars in the world know? Jesus is present in records made by humans, there are no living eyewitnesses, and no time machine. Therefore, you cannot prove these documents are true, and you cannot say that it is a fact that Jesus existed. You may, like me, believe he existed (although as you picked up on I don't think he was a godsent figure at all) but you cannot say for a fact that he did.

"Do you really believe that they [religions] were all just "made up" by one man who felt like keeping his "village" in order?"

Is that really such a ridiculous hypothesis? Although I think you'll find that most religons were actually introduced to whole countries by the government, usually as the result of influence over a leader. Christianity wasn't actually getting anywhere fast until it was made official religion of the Roman Empire.

"See above about the things that Christianity and religion in general have brought into the world."

You can see it in the papers too. Usually on the front page.

" In case you're wondering, mathmatical statistic impossibility occures at 1*10^600"

I'm no mathematician, but I've found a page which debunks this, as well as the way you arrived at this number. Once I find it, I'll post it for your perusal. But from what I remember your calculation leaves out several important biological factors.

"And you think that other planets really defeated those odds?"

I never said that other planets supporte life (although chris may have done). But I accept it as a possibility.

"Could a worldwide flood possably destroy small parts of the world?"

Begs the question of a) how a flood formed in the first place b) how all the animals survived and c) where the evidence of it is today

" I don't trust everything that every scientist says, and you shouldn't trust everything that every pastor says. The best thing to do would be to read the Bible"

So you hold the bible to be an infallible record of everything it contains? Namely, that if the bible says something, and the evidence saus something else, then the bible is right? I don't mean to start a literary/spritual argument, I just wish to nkow how you perceive all this.

"What makes you think that we're the worst?"

War, mainly. And the way we f**k each other over so well and so often. And don't even get me started on destroying species, habitats, global climate change, etc.

"That would be a waste of cheddar!!!"

Would it still be a waste of cheddar if it granted you eternal life in a blissful paradise? Seems like a good religion to follow, if you ask me. Especially if you're the owner af a chedar factory.

"Read Job and tell me how vague the descriptions of the bohemoth and the leviathan are."

If I remember correctly, they're about as close to the description of dozens of other beasts which we understand as mythical. If you could post the relevant passages or provide a link I'd be most appreciative.

"I've heard that question so many times it's not even funny."

And you begin your rant that god has the ability to change everything at will, therefore rendering science useless as it relies on observable constants (namely radioisotopes, amongst others). If this is the case, then we are at an impass; because scientific logic will always fail when faced with "god did it".

"it would make sense that he woudl add age to what he made, wouldn't it?"

Well to me it would make more sense that god didn't exist at all and the age things have is... uh... how old they are.

"Well I'm happy to see that you acknowledge that he existed no matter what his diety was."

I believe he existed... the way you phrased it made it sound like I KNEW he existed, IMO. And I don't regard him as affiliated with any deity whatsoever.

"It's not his responsibility to control us."

Then why bother having a god? If he can't or won't control his subjects, why should I believe he exists if I can still see no evidence for it? At all?

"One in 1*10^75937500000 is easier to believe then God?"

Maybe I should do a bit of maths on this... hmm, what are the chances of molecules combinig in just the right way to make a god?
No, I'm only joking. Like I said above, I'm still trying to find that page (it was on a site with about 3 million pages and I can't remember which heading it was under). Bah.

"And I am tired of people trying to convince me that there is no God."

I am not trying to convert you. See title of topic.

"But let me just say, if you're willing to change your beliefs because of some chat on the internet, then you were never that solid in them to begin with."

So the ability to change your mind automatically makes it weak? I change my outlook on things due to changes in evidence. It has no effect on my beliefs as yet.
And I guess I can take it as read that, by this comment, there is no possibility that you will admit the possibility that you could be wrong. Sigh.

"Many Christains and hypocrats"

Heh... personally, I find it odd that you seperate the two. But no matter.

"Then why should we have to prove something right to prove it is real?"

Firstly: we can't prove anything right. Secondly: we can't prove anything is real. All we can do is say stuff like "things fall down. Why? Dunno. Oh hold on, maybe there's a big magnet under trhe floor. Hold on, it attracts everything though. OK, must be some other kind of force. I'll call it gravity, and work out how it works mathematically". Thirdly: I therefore have to believe what I can see, and everything I see bears the hall marks of having no divine deity involved in it's construction from my POV.

"And this again goes back to proving God wrong or right."

No, it doesn't. I have never tried to prove god wrong or right. It's just that my scientific beliefs are incompatible with any religous ones I may have had.

"I'm not going to try to explain God's mentality because frankly, I can't. And neither can you."

You're quite right; IMO, either god is a total schizo freak who doesn't know what he's doing, or he's actually trying to get people sent to hell. Or maybe the whole "believe in my teachings, or die forever horribly!" just harks back to wanting to get people to do what they're told to.

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