BREAKING: Clinton pwns Obama

[GameMaster]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/...sts/index.html

Originally Posted by Hillary Clinton

"For everyone here in Ohio and across America who's been ever been counted out but refused to be knocked out, for everyone who has stumbled but stood right back up, and for everyone who works hard and never gives up -- this one is for you," Clinton said before supporters in Columbus.

"You know what they say," she said. "As Ohio goes, so goes the nation. Well, this nation's coming back and so is this campaign."

[Neo]

This is good for the Republicans.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Neo

This is good for the Republicans.

Well thats arguable. I continuing Dem primary will keep a lot of media focus on both candidates and away from McCain. McCain will be able to concentrate on the general, the question is: is anyone listening when there is a knock down drag out on the other side of the isle?

And it will get ugly now. Clinton is finally doing what she should have down in the first place, and REALLY attack Obama's inexperience and naive comments, especially when it comes to foriegn policy.

If Hillary wins, I think she has a great chance to beat McCain, but I think McCain would destroy Obama in a general. Obama's rhetoric is already starting to wear thin on his "hope based" support. Thats problem when you run on emotion and not issues. When the rush wears off, all those inspiring statements quickly become cliche.

And imagine how McCain could attack Obama in ways that Clinton can't? On taxes? On foreign policy? On experience (which matters much more non-democrats)? My only worry with McCain against Obama is if he takes a bad turn in health, as his speech seems to have slowed of late. The age concern could be deadly.

[Neo]

Every head-to-head matchup I've seen shows that Obama would beat McCain, but McCain would trounce Hillary. She doesn't exactly have the ability to grow her base of support since half of this country absolutely despises her and would not vote for her under any circumstances.

While it's true that Obama's inexperience and perceived Muslim ties may eventually catch up to him, that's all speculation at this point. I'm basing my opinions on the currently available data.

Put McCain on a stage against Obama, and it will make McCain appear even older than he really is.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Neo

Every head-to-head matchup I've seen shows that Obama would beat McCain, but McCain would trounce Hillary. She doesn't exactly have the ability to grow her base of support since half of this country absolutely despises her and would not vote for her under any circumstances.

While it's true that Obama's inexperience and perceived Muslim ties may eventually catch up to him, that's all speculation at this point. I'm basing my opinions on the currently available data.

Put McCain on a stage against Obama, and it will make McCain appear even older than he really is.

These are polls taken before the general election, meaning they are worthless when comparing two members of different parties.

McCain will go after Obama is ways that Hillary can't out of fear of alienating her base. McCain will have no such concerns and it will be ugly. America is not a liberal nation, and Obama is the most liberal senator there is and his state and national record reflect that. The National Journal even wrote a study on it. McCain will have no problem going after Obamas record on taxes, social issues, etc.

He's already shown to be vulnerable to national security issues with Hillary's red phone commercial. Imagine what McCain can do when he's even more hawkish than Clinton?

In the genral election, its going to be a very different story if Obama wins.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/8843.html

If attacks by Clinton work, how more will they work coming from someone who actually disagrees with him?

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Professor S

These are polls taken before the general election, meaning they are worthless when comparing two members of different parties.

I don't know what this means, they're just as valid as any other polls and are generally accurate. Do you mean polls taken before the primaries? Polls taken before the election match up pretty well. And the "half this country hates Hillary" portion has been true for a long time. Much harder to reverse that than it is to bring down Obama.

Fuck Ohio. They always fuck everything up. I hate playing shows there and driving through the state. It sucks.

The Germanator: "F U Ohio, F U!!"

Ohio: "F.....Me??"

Ohio: *thinks about it*

Ohio: "NO! F U!!!

[The Germanator]

Fuck Ohio. They always fuck everything up. I hate playing shows there and driving through the state. It sucks.

[Jason1]

This has been discussed at length but in case you missed my opinions before...

I think Obama has a much better chance of beating Mcain in the general election, and I know I saw someone on CNN say awhile back, and I quote "The Republicans are secretly praying that Clinton wins the primary" Not that this necessairly gives my views any more credibility, but I tend to agree.

[Professor S]

Here is why Obama is a dead man in the general election:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2369157.shtml

Specifically the part where he voted to not have medical care given to abortions that survive. Essentially, that opinion states that even when a child is out of the womb, and still living, it is not a human being and may be left to die because the INTENT was to kill it. So intent is what matters, not the reality that if this were a premature baby of the same developmental stage, every effort both mandated by ethics, morality and LAW would be made to save it. Its an enabling of infanticide through negligence and is disgusting.

Can you imagine the mental picture made when national ads are broadcast about this issue? How many centrist Obama supporters would run from his campaign?

He's a dead man in the general election, IMO.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Specifically the part where he voted to not have medical care given to abortions that survive. Essentially, that opinion states that even when a child is out of the womb, and still living, it is not a human being and may be left to die because the INTENT was to kill it.

So? I agree with that. And I think any normal Pro-Choice viewing person would also.

This is America, abortions are legal, and conservatives need to just stop whining about it.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Jason1

So? I agree with that. And I think any normal Pro-Choice viewing person would also.

This is America, abortions are legal, and conservatives need to just stop whining about it.

Actually, you're wrong on several accounts, and not just on moral and logical grounds which I won't address on this post.

1) All abortions are not legal, and partial birth have been happily outlawed for a few years now.

2) Most centrist to right wing people are against late term abortion when specifically asked about it, for obvious reasons. The partial birth ban was easily passed.

I'm center-right and I'm pro-choice as well, but late term abortuion makes me sick as I consider it legalized murder and the thought of a failed abortion or better named... a BABY..., LIVING ON ITS OWN outside of its mother's womb, on a doctor's table being left to die makes my stomach churn.

None of my thoughts on election outcomes are based on my affiliations, but instead of what has been a historically centrist voter base that has decided elections, and there will be MANY centrist independents who will be shocked and disgusted by Obama's voting record on this issue.

[Jason1]

I couldve sworn someone said Obama was a dead man in the general election...who was that again? Oh yea...

Originally Posted by Professor S

Here is why Obama is a dead man in the general election:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2369157.shtml

Specifically the part where he voted to not have medical care given to abortions that survive. Essentially, that opinion states that even when a child is out of the womb, and still living, it is not a human being and may be left to die because the INTENT was to kill it. So intent is what matters, not the reality that if this were a premature baby of the same developmental stage, every effort both mandated by ethics, morality and LAW would be made to save it. Its an enabling of infanticide through negligence and is disgusting.

Can you imagine the mental picture made when national ads are broadcast about this issue? How many centrist Obama supporters would run from his campaign?

He's a dead man in the general election, IMO.

[manasecret]

I'm only posting on this article that Prof. S mentioned, which says --

Obama — who joined several other Democrats in voting "present" in 2001 and "no" the next year — argued the legislation was worded in a way that unconstitutionally threatened a woman's right to abortion by defining the fetus as a child.

"It would essentially bar abortions because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this was a child then this would be an anti-abortion statute," Obama said in the Senate's debate in March 2001.

During his 2004 run for U.S. Senate, Obama said he supported similar federal legislation that included language clarifying that the measure did not interfere with abortion rights.

Which, unless I'm reading it wrong, says that he only voted against it because the measure was worded in such a way that defined all fetuses as children, which would threaten the right to abortion.

The article is unclear, so I may be wrong, but from my understanding that seems to be the case.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by manasecret

I'm only posting on this article that Prof. S mentioned, which says --



Which, unless I'm reading it wrong, says that he only voted against it because the measure was worded in such a way that defined all fetuses as children, which would threaten the right to abortion.

The article is unclear, so I may be wrong, but from my understanding that seems to be the case.

That is his explanation of the his decision, but like you, I don't know the exact wording of it. But considering his stance on partial birth abortion (a process that literally sucks the brain from a partially delivered late term child), I find it hard to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.

Regardless of his motivations, it will be quite easy for Republicans to have a field day with his decision on this.

[KillerGremlin]

Obama is starting to run out of steam, and Clinton is definitely putting her foot down by ripping apart his feel-good approach to the campaign. But is it too little, too late? After the half-ass job the Republicans did over the past 8 years, I think the democrats are going to win this election regardless if Hilary or Obama are running.