April NPD or Everyone Drinks except Nintendo

[Angrist]

Now the interesting question is:

Don't 3rd party games sell on Nintendo consoles because there are too many great 1st party games?
Or don't they sell because Nintendo fans are way too loyal/stupid?

I used to think it was the first. I couldn't even buy all the great Nintendo games, so why would I get the 3rd party games?
But now I'm starting to think it's the second... Okami and Boom Blox are better games than many Nintendo has made, but I doubt they'll sell much.

[Jonbo298]

It's a mixture of both I think. The problem, is that by releasing a title on a Nintendo console, you are competing with Nintendo on quality. Most Ninty games are really good (I said most, not all). So it's difficult to try and get up to that level. Hence why most developers don't try, because they realize people will wonder why get this when X related Nintendo game is better?

There are standout games people will buy. You have to advertise and convince people that it is worth it (along with word of mouth, which helped the Wii more then any advertising with Wii Sports).

[Aladuf]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

That is the same feeling Aladuf shares.
And for some reason the creation of Wii Play and Game Party hasn't stopped stuff like Gears 2 or Prototype or hell even Mad World from being announced. Epic isn't all of sudden turning GoW 2 into Gears Party or Halo Play.

Whoa whoa whoa, wait. That is not how I feel. I know that devs like Epic or Bungie etc. aren't gonna change their games into mini-games or things like that. I'm actually annoyed at the people that are marking this as the end of "hardcore gaming" because of what? April NPD? Nintendo had a month like many others, 700,000+ sales and PS3/360 suffered a bit. But these people who sit here and say that GTA4 was hardly the HD consoles "savior" is retarded. It was five days at the end of April, do we all not still think that GTA4 will most likely sell 8-9 million and possibly more? Hardcore gaming is going as strong as ever, and people need to realize that.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by Jonbo298

The problem, is that by releasing a title on a Nintendo console, you are competing with Nintendo on quality.

When you release a game on any console, you are competing with all the other Third, Second, and (even on PS3 and 360, the occasional) First Party games of high quality, with established names from established developers...

Originally Posted by Angrist

Now the interesting question is:

Don't 3rd party games sell on Nintendo consoles because there are too many great 1st party games?
Or don't they sell because Nintendo fans are way too loyal/stupid?

Probably both, and a few more... You also have to take into consideration the fact that, during the previous two generations, there had been significantly fewer Nintendo consoles in the hands of consumers then there were say, Playstations (Something like 6-to-1 last gen, 3-to-1 the gen before that)... So lower sales were to be expected to begin with...

[Jonbo298]

The thing is, is that MS and Sony made games aren't held up to the same standard Nintendo games are in the general populace, hence why alot of games on the Wii or GC or N64 didn't sell as well, because people come to expect quality from Nintendo (with a rare exception once in awhile).

For other consoles, yeah, you have to compete against alot more, but there isn't a defacto company to compare to for the most part. Yeah, I'm having a hard time explaining it. Oh well.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by Jonbo298

MS and Sony made games aren't held up to the same standard Nintendo games are in the general populace

Overall, no... Which is why I said "the occasional", in reference to MS and Sony...
I don't know of any specific examples in MS's case (since I'm an Xbox n00b), but I believe Team Ico (Ico, Shadow of the Colossus) is a first party developer for Sony... God of War and Gran Turismo are first party titles...
And yeah, that may be 4 games/franchises established over 2+ console generations... But... Hey... "occasional"

Originally Posted by Jonbo298

but there isn't a defacto company to compare to for the most part. Yeah, I'm having a hard time explaining it. Oh well.

Maybe it's just because you're having a hard time explaining exactly what you mean, or maybe it's just a difference of opinion, but I don't see why the lack of having a single company to compare quality to is an issue when there still exists an overall tier of high-quality titles from a collection of high-quality developers...

[Jonbo298]

I agree, there is alot of high quality titles from everyone (well, almost everyone). ICO, God of War, CoD 4, etc...It's just that there is still a 'hardcore' Nintendo fanbase that doesn't always see beyond the box still, unfortunately. Heck, the 360 was my first non-Nintendo console ever (I don't count Genesis/Dreamcast because I got them after they were pretty much dead and cheap fun from the good ol' days is nice).

I wasn't a blind fanboy, I prefer Ninty games because of the quality of them, and I wasn't as financially able to afford more then one console like I can now. Now that the 360 has introduced such a wide array of decent titles, and the fact that the way Live was done this generation was in a great way compared to before, I enjoy looking outside the box now that I can

[Angrist]

Maybe people just like playing established franchises. I know I'd rather play F-Zero than WipeOut. Rather Kid Icarus than God of War.

Hm, maybe it's because of the good character design. WipeOut is faceless, while F-Zero has all these interesting characters and a story to go with it.

Fact is, you'd rather compete with God of War than with Zelda.

[Renwood]

Originally Posted by Angrist

Maybe people just like playing established franchises. I know I'd rather play F-Zero than WipeOut. Rather Kid Icarus than God of War.

Kid Icarus? Really? Really?

You poor bastard.

Originally Posted by Angrist

WipeOut is faceless, while F-Zero has all these interesting characters and a story to go with it.

WipEout is also fun. F-Zero GX could take notes. :P

[Angrist]

I've never played a GoW game, so that explains my ignorance. But I think it 'proves' my point.

[Aladuf]

You're missing out. The GoW games are really awesome, I'm playing GoW: CoO on the PSP right now and it is really fun.

In a way I guess it proves your point, but it also proves that you need to expand past Nintendo games IMO.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by Angrist

Maybe people just like playing established franchises. I know I'd rather play F-Zero than WipeOut. Rather Kid Icarus than God of War.

I think it's quite obvious that people like playing established franchises, no arguing there...
Although I'd hardly call Kid Icarus an established franchise, since as it stands now, it's still a one-off game from like 20 years ago...
God of War, on the other hand, earned a 93% score on gamerankings and sold 3.2 million, despite not being an established franchise, and despite coming from a division of Sony who's only previous game was the middling racer Kinetica...
It's success spawned a sequel, which earned a 92% rating and has sold 2 million, and a PSP game, which earned a 91%, and sold... Well, nobody buys PSP games...
But, when discussing the general public's reaction to a game, those stats are hardly anything to frown at...

Fact is, you'd rather compete with God of War than with Zelda.

That's true... But would you rather compete with Zelda or Final Fantasy? Zelda or Dragon Warrior? Zelda or Gran Turismo? Zelda or Grand Theft Auto?
Only 1 out of those 4 are from Sony, but all are high-quality games from established franchises which, at least during the previous two generations (which is when developers started becoming wary of Nintendo consoles), you could only find on Sony consoles, and that was my whole point...

The competition on Playstation and Xbox might not be coming from Sony and Microsoft, but it's still there, and it's still of very high quality...

[Aladuf]

Originally Posted by DeathsHand

It's success spawned a sequel, which earned a 92% rating and has sold 2 million, and a PSP game, which earned a 91%, and sold... Well, nobody buys PSP games...

And don't forget God of War 3 for PS3 next year!

[Renwood]

Originally Posted by Angrist

I've never played a GoW game, so that explains my ignorance. But I think it 'proves' my point.

This has less to do with God of War and more to do with the fact that you mentioned Kid Icarus as relevant in any context.

Its a piece of shit.

[BreakABone]

Doesn't come out often, but top 10s across the board from April.

Top 20 Video Game Titles:
1. Grand Theft Auto IV* (Xbox 360) 1.850.000
2. Mario Kart Wii (Wii) 1.120.000
3. Grand Theft Auto IV* (PS3) 1.000.000
4. Wii Play w/ Remote (Wii) 360.000
5. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) 326.000
6. Gran Turismo 5: Prologue (PS3) 224.000
7. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness (NDS) 202.000
8. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time (NDS) 202.000
9. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Wii) 152.000
10. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare* (Xbox 360) 141.000
11. Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII (PSP)
12. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2* (Xbox 360) 103.500
13. Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3 (PS2)
14. Game Party (Wii)
15. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock* (PS2)
16. New Super Mario Bros. (NDS)
17. Mario Kart DS (NDS)
18. Rock Band* (Xbox 360)
19. Mario Party DS (NDS)
20. Super Mario Galaxy (Wii)

Top 10 Wii Titles:
1. Mario Kart Wii 1.120.000
2. Wii Play w/ Remote 360.000
3. Super Smash Bros. Brawl 326.000
4. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock 152.000
5. Game Party
6. Super Mario Galaxy
7. Mario and Sonic: Olympic Games
8. Carnival Games
9. Mario Party 8
10. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08

xx. Okami < 100.000

~Interesting that Okami Wii is apparently just shy of 100k.
Though I do take issue with Game Party, Carnival Games and Mario Party 8 being on the list. The rest of the list isn't awful. I find it weird that Tiger Woods is still selling so well.

Top Xbox 360 Titles:
1. Grand Theft Auto IV* 1.850.000
2. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare* 141.000
3. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 103.500
4. Rock Band*
5. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock*
6. Army of Two
7. Major League Baseball 2K8
8. Halo 3*
9. Iron Man
10. Assassin's Creed*
~Not surprising seeing how most do, but Iron Man is pretty high up on the list for coming in so late in the game. The list features most of the expected games.

Top PS2 Titles:
1. Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3
2. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock*
3. MLB '08: The Show
4. God of War II
5. Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3
6. Rock Band*
7. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
8. Metal Gear Solid: Essential Collection
9. Iron Man
10. Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy

Top 10 PS3 Titles:
1. Grand Theft Auto IV* 1.000.000
2. Gran Turismo 5: Prologue 224.000
3. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
4. MLB '08: The Show
5. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2*
6. Rock Band*
7. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock*
8. Army of Two
9. Assassin's Creed*
10. Iron Man
~Very similar list to the 360.

Top 10 NDS Titles:
1. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness 202.000
2. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time 202.000
3. New Super Mario Bros.
4. Mario Kart DS
5. Mario Party DS
6. Mario and Sonic: Olympic Games
7. Imagine: Babyz
8. Pokemon Diamond Version
9. The World Ends With You 43.000
10. Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day
-
xx. Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword 23.700

~The world awaits the eventual merger of Pokemario. The first game to sell a billion copies opening day.

Top 10 PSP Titles:
1. Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
2. God of War: Chains of Olympus 64.000
3. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories
4. MLB '08: The Show
5. Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories
6. Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition
7. Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters
8. Patapon
9. Need for Speed Carbon: Own the City
10. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas

http://www.interactive.org/top-ten.php