Dubai

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

Also, Mr. Christ preached about a lot of things - love, tolerance, etc. I don't think that makes those ideas Christian.

No, just the idea of church separate from state. Before he made that differentiation governments were intertwined with religion, oracles, mysticism, etc. Jesus made that change and spread that ideal, and I think most opjective historians and theologians would agree with that statement.

Keep in mind, I am not a Christian, so when I refer to something as being "Christian" I normally am referring to the teachings and influence of the man/philosopher, and not the 2,000 years of religious interpretation and deification.

The separation of church and state hasn't come about due to religion, it's come about due to the evolution of ideas of philosophers and politicians, some of which happen to have been religious.

I fail to see the difference. Once Christ made those statements and gained his following, and the word spread, I don't think you can deny the influence, especially among religious philosophers and lawmakers. It doesn't matter who made the law later on, without his influence we'll never know what would have happened. Hence, it's a uniquely Christian ideal/philosophy, IMO.

[Typhoid]

That really doesn't prove anything about anything. What's your point, that "life isn't fair"?

That's not what I was implying at all.

My point was more that it's fairly handicapped to ask a country (in your own mind) to give up thousands of years of tradition, their national belief and religion, because of a fucking debt.


It's almost as ridiculous as saying "If Americans stop openly praising God, the national debt will be wiped and free healthcare for all."

I think that history has proven that separation of church and state is the right thing to have

History tends to not only be written by the victor, but the side of the person using it as an example. You can talk of church and state because we in Western Culture have it. Even that is arguable. Sure, in North America there is no designated religion - but it's pretty clear it's Christian or a sect of it.

What my problem with this is simple - you started out defending the fact that they should basicaly drop their faith. For a debt. Stop facing Mecca, and God will pay your debt, right?

And in fact - this particular example of the United Arab Emirates (of which Dubai is part of) doesn't have a "set" religion. In fact - as part of their constitution which was fully ratified in 1996:

freedom to exercise religious worship is guaranteed in accordance with established customs and provided it does not conflict with public policy or violate public morals

Yes - the Emirates do indicate that Islam is the official religion of the area - but what is wrong with that? It's a mix of Theocracy (minus the following the word of that God) and Free Religion.

So answer me this, in short - why can a Nation not have a national religion so long as it does not force people to believe against their own will?
What's wrong with a country saying "Hey, we like Jesus. You can come in if you want to and believe whatever you want. But we'd really appreciate it if you also liked Jesus, like we do."

[KillerGremlin]

The separation of Church and State is an ideal.