April NPD or Everyone Drinks except Nintendo

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

I'm tempted to remove the Wii from the console wars entirely, as its not really the same animal.

You can ask BaB on this one, I've always dismissed Wii from the console war. No matter how good it does, I still can't pull myself to call it in the same league. Its had to find good viable examples for how I feel this way outside of comparing it to handhelds... or kinda like you said, a popular Neo Geo. <_<

[gekko]

Originally Posted by Professor S

I'm tempted to remove the Wii from the console wars entirely

And this is what's wrong with gamers. What war? I must've missed it on CNN. There is no war, no battle, it's simply two companies with competing products. The only people who should care are the ones working for those companies. The rest of you simply decided you wanted to cheer for an electronics box that hooks up to your TV and then suddenly became hooligans fighting with each other.

Now the modified GameCube is outselling cotton and you don't know what to do. Your telling me the solution is to remove it from your imaginary battlefield? This is a joke.

But instead of just sitting back and watching in amazement, you now want to argue that the console is a horrible failure and it's not what third-parties want. Thank you for being the voice of third parties around the world, I was hoping someone would step up to the plate sooner or later.

But you're right, on so many levels. Wii is a complete failure... oh, and wasn't Nintendo supposed to go bankrupt this generation?

[DarkMaster]

Only a truly amazing looking new Zelda game could get me interested in a Wii, otherwise I really don't see any appeal in the console. I mean here we are again, buying Nintendo's consoles for Nintendo's games. The only reason I could see owning the console right now are Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, and Smash Bros, and none of these games really truly symbolize the Wii's revolutionary mission of motion control. I'd be perfectly content playing all these games with a gamecube controller or something similar.

I guess in my mind, Wii is really just the cool new toy, and the other consoles are just sitting back, doing what they normally do, and I'm fine with that.

[Renwood]

Originally Posted by DarkMaster

otherwise I really don't see any appeal in the console.

Originally Posted by DarkMaster

I mean here we are again, buying Nintendo's consoles for Nintendo's games.

That is all the appeal required from two hundred and fifty dollars.

Also, the only thing worse than Sales-Age is retarded Sales-Age. Please, all of you, stop.

[DarkMaster]

Originally Posted by Renwood

That is all the appeal required from two hundred and fifty dollars.

Like I said, when the next Zelda reveals itself...

[Angrist]

The funny thing is that Nintendo has always said they're not competing with Sony/Microsoft. They're doing their own thing and their market is growing bigger than the conventional market.

The question isn't why Nintendo isn't competing with the rest, but why the rest isn't competing with Nintendo.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Angrist

The funny thing is that Nintendo has always said they're not competing with Sony/Microsoft. They're doing their own thing and their market is growing bigger than the conventional market.

We're not the ones putting together the sales comparisons that include Nintendo, we're just commenting on them. Regardless of what Nintendo says, the industry views them as a competitor.

The question isn't why Nintendo isn't competing with the rest, but why the rest isn't competing with Nintendo.

Because they're two different animals trying to accomplish different things. Gamers play games on the 360 or PS3. Gamers play the Wii itself. The games are secondary, and I think you can see that the third party developers agree...

[Aladuf]

How is there a difference? Either way, Game Party would classify as a non-game and a party game I guess. Which is appropriate because it seems to have enough suck for 2 games.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Aladuf

How is there a difference? Either way, Game Party would classify as a non-game and a party game I guess. Which is appropriate because it seems to have enough suck for 2 games.

How is there a difference between a non-game and a party game?

Really?

But before I even go into that debate, what the hell is your definition of a non-game?

Because as much as you throw it around, I don't even think you have a firm grasp on what people use it for.

[Aladuf]

I classify a non-game as:

Wario Ware
Game Party
Wii Sports
Wii Play
Wii Fit
Carnival Games
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...

Basically, mini-game collections (edit: games you wouldn't actually sit down and play by yourself), games where you don't actually play (Wii Fit). Shovelware.

[Renwood]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Yeah, it's a Ps2 port and figured it would be the one you mentioned, but hell it didn't sell well the first time around.

I hope there's not any subtext here about Okami not deserving to sell more. It's fantastically amazing and shoehorns waggle controls in as well as Twilight Princess, which sold a criminally higher amount, relative to their comparative quality.

Originally Posted by Aladuf

Basically, mini-game collections (edit: games you wouldn't actually sit down and play by yourself), games where you don't actually play (Wii Fit). Shovelware.

There is a distinction though. Wii Play is very much a traditional game. Pong and Duck Hunt are games. Wii Play focuses on local multiplayer to a high degree, but its games are all squarely within the realm of traditional game mechanics. Its more a retro collection with a motion control gimmick than a party game.

You can make an arguement that party games are the ancestor to non-games, but there isn't a logical cut-off. If you start down that road, many genres become very murky, because it is all semantics. The action category and the puzzle category and the RPG category do not exist in vacuums anymore. Ditto non-games and party games. Most things are a meld of multiple design disciplines at this point.

Synergy, daddy.

[Dyne]

Wait, what? Last time I checked, Wario Wares took skill, because the shtick was that it was a TON of microgames thrown at you at once. I don't really agree that it could be considered a non-game based on the flow of the randomized gameplay. However, the GCN one and the Wii one added the whole "party" kind of gameplay, which ruined it for me, personally.

I would consider a non-game different from shovelware as well. They have different terms for a reason.

[Aladuf]

Originally Posted by Dyne

I would consider a non-game different from shovelware as well. They have different terms for a reason.

I would consider them different but most shovelware seems to be mini-games these days so it just seems to be an negative association I have. I'm ignorant towards the Wii, what can I say? My blind hate for the system prevents me from knowing anything past first party games.

[Angrist]

Now the interesting question is:

Don't 3rd party games sell on Nintendo consoles because there are too many great 1st party games?
Or don't they sell because Nintendo fans are way too loyal/stupid?

I used to think it was the first. I couldn't even buy all the great Nintendo games, so why would I get the 3rd party games?
But now I'm starting to think it's the second... Okami and Boom Blox are better games than many Nintendo has made, but I doubt they'll sell much.

[Jonbo298]

It's a mixture of both I think. The problem, is that by releasing a title on a Nintendo console, you are competing with Nintendo on quality. Most Ninty games are really good (I said most, not all). So it's difficult to try and get up to that level. Hence why most developers don't try, because they realize people will wonder why get this when X related Nintendo game is better?

There are standout games people will buy. You have to advertise and convince people that it is worth it (along with word of mouth, which helped the Wii more then any advertising with Wii Sports).