Disgusting...

[TheSlyMoogle]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/us...ig.html?ref=us

Ugh...

[Vampyr]

I'm really not a fan of George Lopez, but I thought this tweet was pretty funny:

georgelopez ARIZONA .. George Lopez is coming .. Oops .. I just got pulled over .. Apparently I fit the profile .. Gacho !!

[Typhoid]

I really hope Americans in the south do understand the huge amount of irony in wanting to get rid of 'illegal immigrants' from 'their land'.

[Professor S]

There are two sinners in this law:

1) Arizona for demanding that people provide ID based on little else than the subjective opinion of law enforcement (I think the supreme court will end up overturning this)

2) The federal government for ignoring a very real problem when it comes to illegal immigration. If the federal government would have taken action, the states wouldn't be in a position to overreach like this.

[magus113]

I think that immigrants, while many have to come here illegally, have also become a big part of the economy...when controlled. I'm definitely gonna agree on the first point that the Professor is pointing out.

[Acebot44]

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by magus113

I think that immigrants, while many have to come here illegally, have also become a big part of the economy...when controlled. I'm definitely gonna agree on the first point that the Professor is pointing out.

Who said anything about being against immigration? The problem is undocumented illegal immigration.

[magus113]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Who said anything about being against immigration? The problem is undocumented illegal immigration.

I never said anything about that, if anything the more extreme right side of the fence is really against it, if the Tea Party protesters are any indication. I'm a descendant of immigrants that became American citizens many years ago, so I'm all for it, as long as it's all under control in regards to documentation, like you're saying.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by magus113

I never said anything about that, if anything the more extreme right side of the fence is really against it, if the Tea Party protesters are any indication. I'm a descendant of immigrants that became American citizens many years ago, so I'm all for it, as long as it's all under control in regards to documentation, like you're saying.

I agree. In fact, my family recently tracked down my great, great grandfather's burial site in Northern Ireland. My family is actually more recent than most.

That said, I think we need to be sure we are addressing what people say, and not what we think they mean. None of us are psychic and we certainly are not the thought-police. Most tea party protesters I have seen have not been anti-immigration, they are anti-illegal immigration and they are for a number of reasons, some invalid IMO but many very valid for reasons such as national security, their burden on welfare systems, and the fact that many do not contribute funds to those welfare systems they enjoy.

Also, one point that can be discussed is that illegal immigration does not naturalize a citizen. They work and live in America but are not American by means of citizenship. If there is no citizenship there is no ownership of responsibility as a citizen and much less of a chance that the illegal immigrant will become a part of the American community as a whole. This is a cultural argument, making it very controversial an certainly not orthodox about it. Still, its a valid basis for discussion.

[magus113]

Absolutely. I'd like to know the difficulty there is in getting all said documentation or American citizenship or residency. I had an ex-girlfriend whose parents were residents but not American citizens. I know that the tests are very simple since my mother remembers taking the tests and helping my grandparents taking the test when she was in high school, so I know that you have to have been a resident of the United States for a certain number of years.

Other than that you've got me. I know that welfare extends a hand to one too many people because of the issues regarding immigration, but I'm definitely not against the idea of welfare as a whole, especially since we're still well on the way towards fixing our economical situation. It all just ties into the documentation aspect of immigration when you're looking at things in that respect.

[manasecret]

Going off your point Prof. S, then it makes sense to give amnesty to all those illegal immigrants already here. Most would jump at the chance to be a citizen, and at that point, they are part of the system and pay their taxes like every one else.

The other part is to stem further illegal immigration. I think the only real way to stop it is to make Mexico become a richer nation. The wealth gradient from Mexico->U.S. is just too high to ever realistically stop illegal immigration. I mean, no one worries about illegal immigration from Canada, and why is that? Because we're at the same wealth level. Mexico needs to get their ass in gear. What has kept them down for so long, anyway?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Going off your point Prof. S, then it makes sense to give amnesty to all those illegal immigrants already here. Most would jump at the chance to be a citizen, and at that point, they are part of the system and pay their taxes like every one else. The other part is to stem further illegal immigration.

On some level amnesty is an inevitability, but it must be done in conjunction with a simplification of the naturalization process, a tightening of the illegal immigration consequences, and the creation of a guest worker program. If not, amnesty only encourages future illegal immigration.