Donkey Kong Country Returns

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

So they are keeping a foot in the past.

Look, if you release a system that you went out of the way to place hardware on to support an entirely different controller and you release several games with options to use that controller (and gamers thank you for it), I have no idea why you would stop doing it.

They've done it twice, out of how many games?
And that was time was 2 1/2 years ago?

Do you also wish they supported Gamecube memory cards?

Really if you wanted to make a better case, I would use the Classic controller, which works with this gen because it was released this gen.

They left the Cube ports in because they have BC in their console, Sony would have to do the same thing if they ever changed their controller.

Personally, I still think its a dumb notion to ask a company to remain in the past only because you aren't comfortable moving forward with them. Especially since it has been 4 years and you really know what to expect from the console by now.

[Angrist]

I'm really with Vampy here... If people are asking for Cubetroller compatibility, it shows Nintendo might be wrong about their recent views. And shouldn't they be about making as much money as possible? How is disabling Cubetroller support helping with that?

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Angrist

I'm really with Vampy here... If people are asking for Cubetroller compatibility, it shows Nintendo might be wrong about their recent views. And shouldn't they be about making as much money as possible? How is disabling Cubetroller support helping with that?

Exactly - I'm not going to buy their game because of this. If I get it as a Christmas gift, fine I'll play it, but I'm not going to go out and buy it. I can't play a timing based game when I can't properly time my actions because of the buffer and unpredictability of motion controls.

It isn't that I'm refusing to move forward with them - I think that motion controls have their place. I like using the wheel on Mario Kart if I'm in the mood for something different or if I'm playing with friends. I'm also going to buy Mario Party soon, and that seems like a game where motion controls would be really fun. Wii Sports would be very un-fun without motion controls.

New Super Mario Bros Wii - the motion controls were used for -one- action. That was fine, it didn't bother me. I probably would have preferred a button combination, but I could deal with that.

Also, classic controller support would be totally okay with me. I own a classic controller, it feels good. The point is I want an alternative to the motion controls - I was saying GCN controller because that's what Moogle initially mentioned.

I would probably end up playing with the motion controls occasionally, just for variety, but it's not my ideal way to play a game like that.

Also it was more than two games, I can think of at least one other: Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. So there are probably others as well.

I think the problem here is that some people feel like they have an obligation to help make a game better by trying to enjoy these controls ("moving forward with them"). You don't. You're paying Nintendo for this product, it's their job to make it as enjoyable as possible.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

Exactly - I'm not going to buy their game because of this. If I get it as a Christmas gift, fine I'll play it, but I'm not going to go out and buy it. I can't play a timing based game when I can't properly time my actions because of the buffer and unpredictability of motion controls.

It isn't that I'm refusing to move forward with them - I think that motion controls have their place. I like using the wheel on Mario Kart if I'm in the mood for something different or if I'm playing with friends. I'm also going to buy Mario Party soon, and that seems like a game where motion controls would be really fun. Wii Sports would be very un-fun without motion controls.

New Super Mario Bros Wii - the motion controls were used for -one- action. That was fine, it didn't bother me. I probably would have preferred a button combination, but I could deal with that.

Also, classic controller support would be totally okay with me. I own a classic controller, it feels good. The point is I want an alternative to the motion controls - I was saying GCN controller because that's what Moogle initially mentioned.

I would probably end up playing with the motion controls occasionally, just for variety, but it's not my ideal way to play a game like that.

Also it was more than two games, I can think of at least one other: Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. So there are probably others as well.

I think the problem here is that some people feel like they have an obligation to help make a game better by trying to enjoy these controls ("moving forward with them"). You don't. You're paying Nintendo for this product, it's their job to make it as enjoyable as possible.

Just so we're clear you haven't played the game yet so you are only complaining based on hearsay?

Anyhow, as I mentioned before I actually do have issues with the motion controls in this game, but that isn't what you are arguing at all.

You are saying that they should offer a whole new control scheme for the game when the simplest solution would have been to include a Wii-mote/chuck combination that doesn't include motion. That I would have accepted, but to say that Nintendo should continue to cater to people who can't change their habits is just a terrible business practice.

Okay here is a list of Nintendo published games that use the Cube controller:
Fire Emblem
Mario Kart Wii
Samurai Warriors 3
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Super Mario Bros Anniversary
Zangeki no Reginleiv

There you go, 6 games in 4 years, 4 of which were released at least 2 years ago, 1 of which is just a port of NES games and one that probably will never see the light of day beyond Japan.

Compare that to the other two dozen or so games they released without Cube controller support, kind of shows you they weren't messing around with the idea.

As for the rest of the statement, I'm just not gonna bother with that so meh.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Just so we're clear you haven't played the game yet so you are only complaining based on hearsay?

No, I haven't, and now I probably never will. I'm basing my assessment on my previous experience with motion controls and platforming, as well as feedback from others (including you).

Anyhow, as I mentioned before I actually do have issues with the motion controls in this game, but that isn't what you are arguing at all.

You are saying that they should offer a whole new control scheme for the game when the simplest solution would have been to include a Wii-mote/chuck combination that doesn't include motion. That I would have accepted, but to say that Nintendo should continue to cater to people who can't change their habits is just a terrible business practice.

Yes, that is what I'm arguing. How is having a controller scheme with the nunchuck any more simple than a controller scheme with the classic controller? Both are addons that you plug into the bottom of a wii mote, except one has a d-pad that you could have used, which solves your initial problem of not enjoying the analog stick.

And since when is it terrible business practice to do things to get more people to buy your game?

Controller options are extremely important. How many games out there let you customize some or all of your button configuration? Almost all of them. Fighting games provide extremely fine grain customization, while others give you a few different layouts to choose from. I don't see how or why this is any different - I have come to expect video game makers to give me options when it comes to controls. The first thing I do on any game is invert the y-axis. I have a couple of friends who play with the "bumper jumper" layout on Halo.

A good business strategy is to be competitive. Other developers let you choose your controls, Nintendo should too. It isn't my fault that those controller options happen to span 3 or 4 devices; but even so it isn't any more expensive for Nintendo to support those devices.

[Typhoid]

How many games out there let you customize some or all of your button configuration? Almost all of them. Fighting games provide extremely fine grain customization, while others give you a few different layouts to choose from. I don't see how or why this is any different - I have come to expect video game makers to give me options when it comes to controls. The first thing I do on any game is invert the y-axis. I have a couple of friends who play with the "bumper jumper" layout on Halo.

Yes - but how many consoles let you use different controllers?

The Wii is for motion controls. That's why it was made - and that was the basis of the concept for the games. Like Babs' said, it has GC ports because it's backwards compatible - not because they want to negate motion controls and let you play Madworld on a GC controller.

While in the past I've said time and time again that people don't like motion controls that much (and this thread is clearly proof) I do think people who complain about not being able to use a controller for a motion-based console are just being huge babies. What did you expect? It's a Wii. It's built for motion control. If you picked up the Kinect, are you going to complain in 4 months about how every game requires you to move for it, and how it would be way better if you could just somehow sit down and use a normal 360 controller?

If you don't like the fact the Wii is a motion control console - sell your Wii. There isn't much point in having a console that's heavy on swinging your arms, if you just want to sit there and twiddle your thumbs, and then complain about why they released a system with motion controls.

[Angrist]

I think you're missing the point here now BaB. This isn't about changing a habit, it's about controls that don't suit the game. The DKC games were always played with a SNES controller. I would personally play this game with the Classic Controller if it was supported, because I think it would be comfortable.

Apparently Nintendo haven't found a good replacement for the Cubetroller, because lots of people still use it. Until they do (Yuu?), why not offer the extra control options? Are they honestly thinking it would hold gamers back? Give them some more credit, they know when motion controls work and when they don't. Nintendo is just being too stubborn, like with a lot of stuff.

And this is coming from a huge Nintendo fan.

[Angrist]

I'm not talking about MKW and SSBB. I'm talking about the best controls for a game, and offering mutliple options just to please fans (and increase sales).

I suspect that for NSMBWii, which is a 4-player game, the lack of GC support is there to push Wiimote sales. I understand that, although I don't like it.
But with DKC 99% of the people will already have 2 Wiimotes.

The Classic Controller was made with classic games in mind. DKC is a very classic game, but it doesn't support the controller. Why? Because of 1 tacked on waggle that a lot of gamers say doesn't work well.

[Bube]

Whoa, you guys talk too much

I'll just say one thing and get out.

When I play with the Wii controller, which is split up into 2 different pieces that move independently from each other, I don't feel as if I'm in control of the controller, and in a way, the game. It just feels loose. In games like Mario Kart, SSB and stuff, I need to feel in control - these are fast paced games.

The same thing goes for 2D platformers - there are a lot of sections that need perfect timing, pinpoint jumping or crazy amounts of button pressing.

[Angrist]

I do love the split controller (Wiimote + nunchuck) for most games (Zelda, Mario Galaxy, Battalion Wars ii...).

When (not if) I get DKCR, I'll most probably play it with the remote in NES style. It looks like a game that's better with a D-pad.

[Angrist]

I want to pick this up when it's a bit cheaper. I'm sure it's a game I would love.

[Jason1]

I am currently in world 8. This game is a lot of fun. I am so happy that it is as difficult as it is. A nice good challenge, especially if you are planning to get all the letters and puzzle pieces.