Screw you, Virtual Console.

[Angrist]

I never bought a single VC game. Mostly because I thought they were overpriced.

I did buy World of Goo and another WiiWare game. A while back my Wii was messed up and I thought about buying another one... but partly because of my WW games, I decided to repair it instead. Worked perfectly by the way.

[Storm Eagle]

*brings out a doll*

Okay everyone, tell me where Nintendo touched you.

[Blix]

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

*brings out a doll*

Okay everyone, tell me where Nintendo touched you.

Yeah this horse was already buried but for some reason, it got dug out and now they're beating it again. Nintendo has a sucky DRM system, it's old news, don't support it if you don't like it, period. And it's hard to believe that some people just found out now. Even if you have not been reading too much this was fairly common knowledge back when the Wii first came out. After the firs page it was already discussed enough but I come back here one day or so later and there's another full page filled with paragraphs-long posts. Either you're willing to go with it or you're not. I've always only bought a console once and rarely ever got to replace it and I always keep them even after a new console is out so I don't care too much about it even though I still think it's retarded.

And KG, go check the Jim Sterling video again. Just go straight into the 5:24 mark if you don't have time for this. MS does support it through the group that they're part of. They just weren't dumb enough to actually put their names directly in the SOPA law. But MS AND APPLE both indirectly support it. They just know how to be discrete. And I don't have time to give you more info about it.

[KillerGremlin]

There was talk of Nintendo remedying the issue when it was first brought up, way back when the Wii and Virtual Console were new hat. I believe Nintendo has the programmers who could address the issue with software updates. It's not like I'm the first person to raise this point. Raising the same point in the future is fair; companies adapt and make changes and improvements all the time. Well, most companies.

Originally Posted by Angrist

But with the current situation... If I want to play a game, I'll find a used copy for the same price... but I'll be able to sell it later on.

Used NES/SNES/N64 games? I don't find the pursuit to be worthwhile. I could spend hours of my life hunting a game down on Ebay. Or I could spend 4 seconds emulating it. If Nintendo had a better VC Library and at a lower price...I'd probably just buy it because I enjoy the TV setup and the nostalgia.



There is an interesting paradigm shift in gaming. Some websites now sell old computer games - often optimized to work on Vista or Win 7 - for reasonable prices. GOG comes to mind. On one hand...I love the fact that I can go and purchase the old games that defined my childhood. On the other hand, I think it raises an interesting copyright dilemma.

Are video games like books? Will there be a library of video games someday?

I guess my question is: emulating a video game doesn't require labor costs, kind of like digital books. If I bought a paperback Mark Twain book, even if he is dead, there are still publishing costs and paper costs.

There are ZERO manufacturing costs to copy software. Well...not exactly zero...bandwidth and server space....but nearly zero. So the question is, should I pay for a Mark Twain book if it is digitally available? Mark Twain is dead. He doesn't receive a penny for his work. And the old publisher model is outdated. Sorry paper company, go fuck yourself. Let's save some trees.

If there is no middle man (paper, book, binding, publishing rights, shipping costs) and Mark Twain is dead...who gets money for the digital copy of the book? And why should they get money? Does his family get money? Do the publishers? What's the dillio?

[Storm Eagle]

Originally Posted by Blix

Yeah this horse was already buried but for some reason, it got dug out and now they're beating it again. Nintendo has a sucky DRM system, it's old news, don't support it if you don't like it, period. And it's hard to believe that some people just found out now. Even if you have not been reading too much this was fairly common knowledge back when the Wii first came out. After the firs page it was already discussed enough but I come back here one day or so later and there's another full page filled with paragraphs-long posts. Either you're willing to go with it or you're not. I've always only bought a console once and rarely ever got to replace it and I always keep them even after a new console is out so I don't care too much about it even though I still think it's retarded.

The whole thing is just overwhelming is all. So did this whole board just go anti-Nintendo or something?

[Blix]

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

The whole thing is just overwhelming is all. So did this whole board just go anti-Nintendo or something?

I'm not blaming you. And I believe, lately, some members in the forums just want to see who they can get butt hurt. It's just entertainment for them. There's a term for that behavior but it eludes me at the moment.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Blix

I'm not blaming you. And I believe, lately, some members in the forums just want to see who they can get butt hurt. It's just entertainment for them. There's a term for that behavior but it eludes me at the moment.

Don't you think you're being a little unfair? I mean, I honestly didn't know this was the case in regard to Nintendo's DRM policy - it was new news to me. I think this is a legitimate issue, especially when none of Nintendo's competitors have a similar policy. I understand your frustration with re-litigating an issue, but I do think it's a valid one.

[Angrist]

When you download something that you were going to buy, it's pretty much the same as stealing.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Angrist

When you download something that you were going to buy, it's pretty much the same as stealing.

No, it's not. There are philosophical differences.

If I walked into Best Buy, and made an exact copy of something and walked out with my copy while leaving the store copy there, then it would be the same as downloading something.

There are bad copyright laws too.


But none of this matters. You guys are missing the gist of this thread. Which is that I paid for the Virtual Console games, and I technically own them....in the restricted capacity Nintendo has defined. That is DRM. DRM is bullshit and doesn't prevent piracy. Insofar that I plan to pirate the shit out of any game I wanted to play now, even if it is available on the Virtual Console. And my opinion is the popular opinion, so because of bad choices...Nintendo is losing customers. If you want to be a "big boy" gaming company and compete with the other big boys, you need to step up your game.

Someone mentioned SOPA in this thread. Microsoft is against SOPA. Good for them.

Originally Posted by Ginkasa

Nintendo's not to blame for the Wii containing my VC games being stolen.

They are responsible for limitations to their medium, including DRM.


Anyway, it was a fun thread guys....I'm gonna go fire up some torrents.

[Angrist]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

If I walked into Best Buy, and made an exact copy of something and walked out with my copy while leaving the store copy there, then it would be the same as downloading something.

So if a (group of) person(s) has put a lot of money/time/effort into developing something you like and you can just copy it without any effort of yourself, you think that's ok?

If I did that at my university I would get kicked out.


Edit: I do agree that Nintendo's business model sucks and isn't profitable for anyone. If only they would have slashed the prices of downloadable games with 50%, I would have bought so much more.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Angrist

So if a (group of) person(s) has put a lot of money/time/effort into developing something you like and you can just copy it without any effort of yourself, you think that's ok?

If I did that at my university I would get kicked out.


Edit: I do agree that Nintendo's business model sucks and isn't profitable for anyone. If only they would have slashed the prices of downloadable games with 50%, I would have bought so much more.

No, I don't. And honestly I hate it when people say they will pirate a game because it costs too much/I'm poor/the company did something I don't like.

It's really simple - just don't buy the game. Don't buy it. The sense of entitlement people have kills me. And if the company did something bad that makes you not want to support them, then just boycott the game completely rather than pirate. Don't talk about the game, don't encourage others to buy it.

Ever since I realized that my VC games would be gone along with my Wii, I haven't purchased a single VC title. However, if my Wii does break or gets stolen, and I PURCHASE a new one, I wouldn't hesitate to restore the VC games I had already paid for. I don't see how that's stealing - it's just restoring the bits you already had. No one loses in that deal - Nintendo still has their money, and you didn't deplete their stock of something.

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

Ever since I realized that my VC games would be gone along with my Wii, I haven't purchased a single VC title. However, if my Wii does break or gets stolen, and I PURCHASE a new one, I wouldn't hesitate to restore the VC games I had already paid for. I don't see how that's stealing - it's just restoring the bits you already had. No one loses in that deal - Nintendo still has their money, and you didn't deplete their stock of something.

I understand this.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Angrist

So if a (group of) person(s) has put a lot of money/time/effort into developing something you like and you can just copy it without any effort of yourself, you think that's ok?

If I did that at my university I would get kicked out.

Arrrgg....let's just agree to disagree.

But yes. If you spend time and money to develop something awesome, and then you make me jump through DRM hoops to get it? I'm going to pirate it.

I don't believe in paying for Nazi DRM. Fuck EA and fuck any company that makes me go through activations or limits me to 2 uses or whatever. I know that I'm a member of the last generation to have PHYSICAL MEDIA, but I remember what it was like to actually own my media.

Certain companies get it right. They don't ruin the experience with DRM. And I give them my money. I love STEAM for the most part...and some day the servers may shut down, but for now they run a tight ship.

Copyright laws are not good either. At a certain point NES games should become shareware or freeware. Perhaps Nintendo is entitled to argue over this fact. But I dunno. What happens when all the original software developers are dead? I mean...look at the Beatles. Buying a Beatles album probably doesn't help Ringo get money because the Beatles' discography was sold to Micheal Jackson. And the important Beatles are dead anyway. So am I thief if I download an album or rip a CD and put it on my Ipod? My family owns the vinyl albums and the CD albums. How much more money does the RIAA need?

At a certain point I'd like to see Nintendo do what a company like Rockstar does. Rockstar has made Grand Theft Auto 1 and 2 freely available to download. And now they are out cranking out awesome new games. Meanwhile, Nintendo released a whole console (3DS) based on emulated old games. At a certain point, just admit that emulation is easy as pie, and open up the NES library to people who buy the next Nintendo console.

How many times is Nintendo going to repackage and sell me Ocarina of Time before we admit that at a philosophical level I've bought the game 2 or 3 times and I'm not a thief for pirating it. Nintendo is exploiting copyright to some level...because emulation is easy and has been around for a while.

Why can't I buy hot Nintendo titles on the Virtual Console but they show up on the 3DS repackaged as new titles and slapped with a high price tag? I mean...that's begging to be emulated.

So I'm sorry Angrist, I don't think every situation is as the one you described. I think you're creating some sympathy-seeking straw man, but I'm not biting.

[KillerGremlin]

That's the second Virtual Console shortcoming. The library sucks.

Where is Mario Party 1 and 3? Where are all the good SNES games?

Where is Metroid and Castlevania?

I'm skeptical it has anything to do with licensing and it is just hardcore franchising by Nintendo. Nintendo has expressed antiquated ideas on Copyright laws and DRM time and time again. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to hold onto their NES games forever.

How much potential would Nintendo have if they released a full NES/SNES game library on the Virtual Console? Think of the huge cash they'd pull in.

Maybe even more than re-releasing Ocarina of Time on the 3DS.

[Angrist]

Wait, Paul McCartney is dead? Or are you really going to bring in the original/replacement Paul theory to support your argument?

Nintendo has the publishing rights of those old games. I also don't agree with the high VC price; that's why I never bought a single VC game. Again: I think people would buy more VC games if the price was lower (€1 for a NES game, €1,50 for SNES, etc.).
But with the current situation... If I want to play a game, I'll find a used copy for the same price... but I'll be able to sell it later on.

Oh and like Vampyr said, Nintendo gave away Ocarina of Time twice on GameCube. Now for the first time they remade a Zelda game and asked money for it. They did add a lot of new features/graphics, so it's not the same game you paid for before.
And nobody's forcing you to either buy or pirate it. Don't like what they're doing? Don't play it.

But yeah, let's agree to disagree.