Star: Wars or Trek

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I don't think Lucas ruined Star Wars at all.

Rather, I think that everyone's expectation of the newer movies was set far far too high compared with the original epic trilogy. Go back and actually watch episodes 4-6, and you'll see one thing: They actually suck. However, that is immediately negated due to the fact it was released in the 70's (and obviously the "CGI" in it was fantastic for the time) and that Harrison Ford was in it. Mark Hamill was a terribly horrid actor 90% of the time - the only times he was a good actor was when he wasn't struggling to awkward up his lines. Again, this is negated due to the sheer fact of nostalgia.

Anyways, compared to the sheer epic-ness of the trilogy, people were expecting Episodes 1, 2 and 3 (especially 1) to literally give them a handjob while they watched it, because it was nearly almost 30 years since it started, so it has to have been 30 times better then!


And don't even bring up the Jar Jar Binks thing, without realizing Wookies, C3-PO or the Ewoks.

Um...

WRONG

No honestly, I don't think you've ever been more wrong. If you though 2+2=Banana you couldn't be more wrong. On a right vs. wrong scale measured 1 to 10, you rank in at about SUCK. j/k

I simply disagree. The first two movies were definitely improved by advances in special effects (they hold up even today, and in many cases look better than CG IMO) and the like, but what made them great was the writing, direction and character development. The best of the original movies were the original and Empire, and former being in Lucas's prime when he still directed and wrote on a regular basis, and the latter he did not write or direct, but simply produced.

Also, you can easily make the argument that overall the content that was not under his direct control was the best of the series. Revenge was Lucas's best effort since the original, but by that point he had already annihilated so much of his own mythos it took effort to give the movie weight.

[Ric]

How can someones personal opinion be wrong? It's their opinion, just because you disagree with it, it does not make it wrong ( just for Prof S)

Anyway. When they remastered the old Star Wars I thought they did a good job. I just cant for the life of me figure out why they took out the storm trooper that bashes his head, it was well funny.



Not the one I was thinking of, I could not find that, the one I was thinking of is at the start when storm troopers and attack to capture the princess.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Ric

How can someones personal opinion be wrong? It's their opinion, just because you disagree with it, it does not make it wrong.

Please read my entire post...

[Ric]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Please read my entire post...

I did read your entire post thankyou. Though joking you said somones personal opinion was wrong. My point was that someones personal opinion can not be wrong, it is their opinion. I myself was just joking and being pedantic anyway so dont worry about it/take it personally dude.

No ill intent intended

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Ric

I did read your entire post thankyou. Though joking you said somones personal opinion was wrong. My point was that someones personal opinion can not be wrong, it is their opinion. I myself was just joking and being pedantic anyway so dont worry about it dude.

What I was joking about what the entire fallacy that anyone can call someone's opinion about a subject like Star Wars wrong. I can't help it if people don't accept the and J/K for what they mean. Should I have ended it with an explanation of the joke in paragraph form?

And no, you weren't joking in your original post, because joking requires either a joke or a sign that you are not serious (hence, the or J/K I mentioned above).

[Ric]

Originally Posted by Professor S

And no, you weren't joking in your original post, because joking requires either a joke or a sign that you are not serious (hence, the or J/K I mentioned above).

Really??? Funny that because I thought I knew what I was thinking. Are you psychic

Next time I will put J/K or just to keep people who dont understand when I am playing with semantics happy shall I

[KillerGremlin]

If Episodes 4-6 are "bad," then I can't even imagine describing Episodes 1-3. I felt like Episode 1 was made to sell fucking happy meals and video games. The whole Pod Racing scene? That scene felt like it was injected into the movie to sell toys and video games (which it did). Episode 2 and 3 featured some of the WORST acting I have ever seen! And the script...come on George Lucas, you cannot write a fucking love story...and how could you, the only girls who like Star Wars look like Jabba the Hut and their vagina looks like this:

Anyway, I won't say anything serious about Star Wars because I'm not a huge fan, but back in the day the original trilogy blew my skirt up and tickled my vagine sooooo....
(i had some good father-son bonding seeing the original trilogy when it was rereleased in theaters)

I'm willing to bet Star Trek is better than the limited 6 Star Wars films. There are a bunch of Star Trek movies, two TV show runs (right? or is it more?), and yeah....The thing is I never watched Star Trek and like Star Wars I don't really give a shit about it. On the other hand, Star Wars probably wins with books and video games and parodies (Spaceballs!).

Seriously though, LoTR > Star Wars and Star Trek

I don't mind fanboys that much, they are fun to make fun of and every now and then you see some hot chicks dressed up.

[Typhoid]

Oh Strangler, how I missed your posts.


While yes, it's clearly my opinion that the movies are as bad in most cases as Episodes 1-3, it's immediately proven why nobody factors that in by KG's recent post:

(i had some good father-son bonding seeing the original trilogy when it was rereleased in theaters)

Nostalgia. The main culprit of why nobody will admit that Mark Hamill is a terrible actor. He is the Hayden Christiensen of those movies. Do I need to remind you of the scene where Darth Vader tells Luke he is his father, thusly resulting in the gem of acting prowess that is the "noooo" - much as bad as Vader in episode 3 shouting "nooo".

The Pod Racing scene wasn't made to sell toys. It just wound up that it was easily marketable, and technically a major scene in the movie - considering it proved that Anakin indeed does have a vast amount of "the force."

And don't even bring up "marketing" with Star Wars. Do you really forget about all the mass amounts of Star Wars crap they made in the 70's? All the shit with Han Solo on it, or a Leie Lunchbox? Maybe you want a Luke Skywalker bobblehead for your Station Wagon. Maybe a touch'n' speak Chewbacca more suits your need, or how about a Darth Vader mask? Maybe you can curl up at night beneath your "A New Hope" blanket and your Ewok bedsheets, but not before you lay your head down on your R2D2 and C3P0 pillows.

they hold up even today, and in many cases look better than CG IMO

Really? Really?

I didn't listen to the video, so I don't care what it says, but just look at it.







really?


Anyways, I'm not saying the trilogy sucks horribly, or Episodes 1-3 are amazing - I'm just saying people become biased over it because when they were kids, Star Wars was epic, it was awesome, it was fantastic, and trying to grasp the fact that the acting was crap, and the graphics (while good for their time) don't hold up - clearly, it was the 70's.

And to break it to you all who dearly love the originals - the script writing, while not bad, isn't anything special. People also seem to forget that Lucas was trying to focus on a new audience. Much like in Star Wars in the 70's, he was shooting for kids and teenagers, so was the case for episode 1. (not so much 2 and 3, really.) The problem there, is that as the years pass, you all age aswell. Thusly not making you that bright eyed lad with your father/friends in the theatre who is amazed at a man in a furry outfit who can warble his voice.

[Professor S]

Maybe it's my age, but I can pick out CGI from miniatures in a heartbeat, and miniatures just look better.I think it's the lighting. You just can't fake it in CGI.

My main complaints with the effects in the new movies aren't with the worlds, but in the overuse of CGI in characterizations. I HATE CGI characters. They look FAKE, and the live actors look like they're talking to empty space. I'll take crude puppets everytime, because at least the acting doesn't suffer horribly. The only successful CGI character I've ever seen in Golum, and that was because he was played by an actor and then the CGI was superimposed.

And puppeteering has come a long way. I was so happy to see that in Hitchhiker's Guide they used armatures and puppets for the Vogons. They looked incredible.

But thats besides the point. The storytellng, acting and writing are just better in the first three movies. Those movies had a soul, while the last three (except the end of Revenge) felt more like high production value mythology lessons.

[manasecret]

With those two example videos, I still agree with KG. When watching that first clip (from Episode 1, no?), nothing about it to me screams that the movie came from a bygone era of movie effects (except perhaps the hairdos ). It all looks real, probably because it all was real effects (except the lasers) and done extremely well. The ships were real miniatures. The explosions were real explosions. The end result in my opinion looks very believable to this day.

Then the 2nd video. Yes, the worlds they created in Ep. 1-3 far surpassed anything they could create in Ep. 4-6 in detail and depth. But the problem is, every bit of each one of those scenes in that video look just like a computer generated them. They look animated, when animation should make you forget that it's animated. Nothing about them feels real. It's all too perfect. Then couple that with the films, in my opinion, using CGI as a crutch for a lack of real character development or plot, and it just makes things much worse.

[KillerGremlin]

While Mark Hamil is not the best actor in the world, I find him far less douchey and annoying than Hayden Christensen. Hayden Christensen just annoys me with his smug and overdramatic acting style. Both series, 4-6 and 1-3 feature their fair share of mediocre acting, which is surprising given the decent actors who star in the films. Part of this is obviously the fault of Lucas who gives us some wonderful script:



"aggressive negotiations" lmao

and using the force to feed each other...

And that's just one of the HORRIBLE FUCKING LOVE SCENES. Come on. Remember the scene where he talks about how coarse sand feels or he is on a picnic with her and those animal things are running around.

At least Episodes 4-6 kept Han and Leia's relationship joke-based (for the most part).

I think the MOST offensive thing though was Lucas' decision to reduce the force to some chemistry experiment. Remember in Episode 1 when we find out that the force is just a bunch of super Jedi sperm that live in people? The midichlorians or whatever they are called.

The whole thing that made the Force cool was that it was some higher God-like power that has to comes from the inside, sort of like some kick ass zen thing. This was the source of much joy among losers and nerds (and my favorite parody scene in Mallrats).

The force has been reduced to the contents of Yoda's splooge after whacking it to some jedi porn. Way to go Lucas, you prick!

[Typhoid]

The force has been reduced to the contents of Yoda's splooge after whacking it to some jedi porn.

They are microscopic life-forms that reside within the cells of all living things and communicate with the Force. Midi-chlorians compose a collective consciousness and intelligence, forming links between everything living and the Force. They are symbionts with all other living things; that is, without them, life could not exist. The Jedi have learned how to listen to and coordinate the midi-chlorians. In order to be a Jedi or a Sith, one must have a high enough concentration of midi-chlorians in one's cells.

Basic star wars knowledge fail.


The thing with Midichlorians, is everything has them. Not everyone who has a high enough concentration of them in their body is a Jedi - they have to learn to channel it.


Also: Anakin was the chosen one. Not Luke. Say whaaaat.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Basic star wars knowledge fail.


The thing with Midichlorians, is everything has them. Not everyone who has a high enough concentration of them in their body is a Jedi - they have to learn to channel it.


Also: Anakin was the chosen one. Not Luke. Say whaaaat.

Oh come on, I was just joking about the Yoda sperm. But my point is valid. The force went from something you feel, "feel the force," to something tangible. The force was this intangible essence in the universe that only a few people could channel with great concentration. Now there are "microscopic life-form that resides within the cells of all living things" that dictate who can use the force or not. And to make matters worse these things are measurable with a little meter. I think it's kind of lame in a who-is-to-say-you-can't-inject-more-of-them-into-regular-people-kind-of-way. Just sayin' though, that is my opinion on the matter.

Anyway, enough bickering I don't care enough about Star Wars to invest this much thought into the subject.

My favorite part of Episode II: Attack of the Clones was the progression of Natalie Portman's outfit throughout the film from this:


to this


It was hotter and more revealing if I recall in movie format...but my point is, they totally had two costume and their is correlation between the quality of the movie as it progressed and the amount of time Lucas spent playing with his light saber on the set.

[Typhoid]

Oh come on, I was just joking about the Yoda sperm.

I was joking too. I'm not actually nerdy enough or in love with Star Wars enough to care.

[Fyacin]

I just want to add one thing to this discussion:
THE ACTOR FOR ANAKIN SUCKS.