Something to Think About

[Professor S]

"But when we become callused to making mistakes that create injustice, we need to evaulate ourselves and criticize ourselves for that."

I believe thats a definite reference to the injustice of the potential war in Iraq. Consider yourself cracked.

You see, you don't rattle me, playa. You carefully word your opinions so that they imply much while not actually taking a stand on anything. While you may consider that smart, I consider it cowardice.

Oh and thanks for the amatuer analyses of my "ultranationalism". Do I love my country? Of course, we are the greatest nation on the planet, but I even took time to point out that we have made mistakes, but like I said before we make them through putting out effort. As for the other countries that helped us out through our international efforts, do you think the international efforts would have even gotten underway without US support. The UN is essentially spineless without the US holding it together, and we provide the MAJORITY of the muscle behind all of the operations I mentioned. I used generalizations, Sue me. But when the vast majority of the military are AMERICAN, I'll make those generalizations.

Now am I overzealous? Maybe. But with good reason. Anti-American sentiment has been at an all time high recently, and when I look at the facts in the case of Iraq vs. America, I find it mind boggling. If I am very passionate in speech, it is because I am twice as appauled by the ignorance and nievete(sp?) of those who are so passionate against taking a vicious, maniacal killer with a grudge out of power.

[playa_playa]

"But when we become callused to making mistakes that create injustice, we need to evaulate ourselves and criticize ourselves for that."

I believe thats a definite reference to the injustice of the potential war in Iraq. Consider yourself cracked.

Sorry to rain on your bs parade. But the sentence "when we become callused to making mistakes that create injustice," has no implications or hidden meaning of a disdain of the war on Iraq. This is simply an assertion that states becoming used to or being able to condone injustice to create justice is a contradiction and a wrongdoing.

Looks to me like what you really need is a lesson in critical thinking. Your "proof", or lack thereof, of my reference to the injustice of the potential war on Iraq speaks volumes about itself. How does the sentence imply this? Jesus Christ, you didn't even bother explaining. Let's look at the sentence again:

"But when we become callused to making mistakes that create injustice, we need to evaulate ourselves and criticize ourselves for that."

Maybe the war on Iraq creates injustice, maybe it doesn't. I don't know for sure. But my personal stance on the subject is that through the information given thus far, it wouldn't be. But if the war on Iraq makes for injustices, well then, it should be criticized. No phenomenon should be exempt from criticism just because of the fact that we have suffered a huge injustice. This is my point. Maybe war on Iraq is or isn't a mistake. I don't know. But if it produces injustice, it should rightly be criticized.

So no, I won't consider myself cracked. But keep hope alive!

Oh and thanks for the amatuer analyses of my "ultranationalism"

Anytime, tiger.

As for the other countries that helped us out through our international efforts, do you think the international efforts would have even gotten underway without US support.

I don't know. Do you? Are you able to somehow foresee the future now? Social phenomena are rarely clear-cut equations. It's hard to make a calculation that would do them justice. In some situations, they are clear-cut. In others, they're not.

But I believe your generalization was that "other countries do nothing." Well, clearly you have just admitted that your generalization is false, no?

- "other countries do nothing"
- "do you think the international efforts would have even gotten underway without US support"

Contradictions, contradictions.

You see, you don't rattle me, playa. You carefully word your opinions so that they imply much while not actually taking a stand on anything. While you may consider that smart, I consider it cowardice.

Implications depend on interpretations. I can't do much in helping what you think I mean besides clarifying - which I've done about 209387356 times now. So believe what you want. But extrapolating that I disdain a possible war on Iraq to be an injustice from my original point is quite the leap of faith. So because of this haphazard interpretation of my point, you regard me as an unpatriotic coward?

Hold on, let me give this a whirl too:

"You see, you don't rattle me, playa."

Dammit. You think I'm an egotistical asshole. So you must be a cynic. Cynics are usually like bitter and stuff. So you must be like bitter and stuff too.

Now am I overzealous?

You give a new meaning to the word. I don't like Anti-American sentiments either. But there is a profound difference between criticism with its intent based on betterment and pure hatespeech. I think my posts belong in the former. You think they belong in the latter.

[Jewels]

i agree with others that was a very good post, if others dont think so, shove off we might once again be fighting

[Professor S]

Playa, you're opinions need little interpreting. They're quite obvious to me and I'm sure to others. But keep on valiantly siting on the fence while throwing stones. You keep on claiming that no one knos for sure whats going on. Well by that argument you can NEVER be wrong, how brave. Its called common sense. Look into it.

As for your comments on injustice, you're seriously not going o admit that those were aimed at the US war against terrorism and such? How naive do you think are? Go back and read your first post again, and hen try and convince me otherwise.

Until then, I'm done with you.

[playa_playa]

Look, if it seems obvious to you, spell it out for chrissake. Why can't you even bother to demonstrate what you keep saying? Or is it that you're just making this crap up?

And I never said that noone knows for sure what's going on. I said noone knows for sure what is going to happen. That's quite a big difference. Common sense? What common sense? You have common sense?

No, I'm not going to "convince" you that my remarks were not aimed at the possible war. You made the claim. Why can't YOU prove it? Or is it that *gasp* this claim of yours is total, unadulterated BS? Look, you think you got me all "figured out." If you do, why can't you spell it out?

You know what, you did convince me of one thing: it doesn't matter how much logic and reason is applied, some people just don't get it. I saw it clearly from your first reponse when you riposted my reply with "you don't know the facts" hoopla. This isn't about facts, this is about a concept; a concept with which this country was founded on. And since you can't possibly fathom it with your ultranationalistic mind that logically derived concepts are true not because of facts but because of their lines of reasoning, you will never, ever, get this thought.

You know what I think it is? I think that you just got pissed because I criticized an article that was praising America - nevermind, of course, that the praise is corrupting and sycophantic to the highest degree. Therefore, it cannot be beneficial. And somehow, you equated my negative attitude towards the article to disloyalty to this country.

Your fanatical nationalism amuses me. And at the same time, it saddens me to think that people in other countries will see people like you and will perceive American nationalism as a mere fanaticism.

Think about stuff for once. Until then, suffice it to say I, too, am done with you.

ps - what's up with sitting on the fence and throwing stones metaphor? Go back and read my pie metaphor. Now there's a real use of a literary device.

[Xantar]

Sheesh, Strangler. You never get on my case for using big words.

Then again, last time we got into a scuffle, you just didn't read my post because it was too long.

Anyway, my point is somewhat similar to playa_playa's (I think). The author of that article makes a number of good arguments. On the whole, it's quite a good article. But I think he goes a bit too far. He simply dismisses the people at the wedding in Afghanistan who were killed, for example, without acknowledging that it was a tragedy.

Now before you jump on me, let me explain. I'm not saying that the war in Afghanistan was wrong. I'm not saying that the United States, on the balance, has done harm to the world. Did things turn out for the better for Afghanis? Well, we won't know for a while, but my rather uninformed guess is that the answer would be yes.

But that doesn't mean that the civilian casualties should be casually ignored and dismissed. They were still regrettable tragedies. You can't twist things around and say that it was a good thing that some civilians died at a wedding. Maybe civilian casualties are unavoidable, and maybe in Afghanistan they were much less than they could have been. Certainly I don't believe that the United States is an evil empire for causing them to happen. But rather than saying, "Oh buy me a box of Kleenexes!" shouldn't we take a moment to reflect on the mistakes made and see what we can do in the future to prevent it?

[Professor S]

Maybe you're right. Maybe I am reading a little more into this than I should and have been too affected by the inane babble of Almansurah and Ranzid and have too quickly put playa into that category. I still think the "injustice" remark was aimed at the war effort, but in hindsight that may a small thing.

There was obviously a bit of dark humor in the article, but I think it was to make a point, and that point is that people often seem to want to see the worst about America without looking at the circumstances. And yes, the Kleenexes part was just a tad insensitive, but my defenmse of the article was for it as a whole. the insensitive portions were far outweighed by the good portions IMO.

It often reminds me of people who immediately believe that the police are guilty of wrong doing every time a robber is shot and killed by one. They don't realize that police and military are human beings, and can make mistakes in the pusuit of doing what they think is right. In the end actions needs to be judged on whether they ended in more good than bad.

So playa, I'm sorry if I jumped to conclusions, but look around the other threads (especially Almansurah's) and I'll think you'll start to see why I've been on the defensive. Hell, I've just started to calm down and its been 3 days.

Leave to Xantar to talk me down from one of my tirades.