Michael Moore-on and 9/11

[Dylflon]

On the topic of Michael more and being blue collar, I'd like to quote some very insightful words written by Kevin Smith for the movie Clerks.

Title doesn't dictate behaviour.

I believe this is very true. Michael Moore was a blue collar guy before he was rich. Why should he change now that he has money.

I still like Bowling for Columbine even though he does mess around with details and edits the crap out of some things, there's a lot of truth to what he has to say...usually.

Strangler, I know you hate the guy but Michael Moore does have a lot of good things to say. I started reading one of his books, "Dude, Where's My Country" and he seems to have a lot of good questions to ask as well. I didn't read past the first couple chapters considering that everything after those chapters is opinion based. He does source everything he writes and points out a lot of things that made me go, "what the crap!" (directed at the actions of the government around the time of 9/11).

I don't agree with his lying but you all seem to go along with one of the biggest forms of media that leaves out the truth. The news. Mainly CNN. All you guys are seeing is the American spin on everything in Iraq. Thy leave almost everything out that would make the american troops look bad. The news is supposed to portray what's happening in our world but it's failing to do so recently. I see more of what's happening because I have a lot of news sources (including Al Jazeera, BBC, CBC and a couple of rogue websites that take sources from all over). Why is nobody getting pissed off at the news. I'm pissed off at the news. Hundreds of civilians are being shot needlessly over there. Where's the coverage on that? You don't see it. Instead you see the footage of the soldiers giving food packages to Iraqis that plays all day long.

There's something wrong when a news station is biased. Then you really aren't getting the truth. Maybe you guys should care about that instead of some fat guy who has an opinion about something.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

I don't agree with his lying but you all seem to go along with one of the biggest forms of media that leaves out the truth. The news. Mainly CNN. All you guys are seeing is the American spin on everything in Iraq. Thy leave almost everything out that would make the american troops look bad. The news is supposed to portray what's happening in our world but it's failing to do so recently. I see more of what's happening because I have a lot of news sources (including Al Jazeera, BBC, CBC and a couple of rogue websites that take sources from all over). Why is nobody getting pissed off at the news. I'm pissed off at the news. Hundreds of civilians are being shot needlessly over there. Where's the coverage on that? You don't see it. Instead you see the footage of the soldiers giving food packages to Iraqis that plays all day long.

There's something wrong when a news station is biased. Then you really aren't getting the truth. Maybe you guys should care about that instead of some fat guy who has an opinion about something.

Exactly what American news organizations are you watching? I never see positive news about the war, even on FoxNews which is basically a Bush pulpit. All I ever see is arguments about whether or not the war is right and then body counts of American soldiers and Iraqi resistance (which aren't even Iraqi for the most part, but foreign insurgents).

Also, you are making claims that hundreds of innocent Iraqi's are being shot over in Iraq. Please provide a source for that information so that we can make a decision for ourselves on the credibility of that statement. And please leave Al Jazeera out of it, as even mentioning them as a "news" source when it comes to this conflict is out and out laughable since they openly supported a genocidal maniac during the military conflict. BBC and CBC are perfectly acceptable souces, though.

Who knows, you might actually change my mind if I can see it for myself, much like you changed my mind about Halliburton.

As for Michael Moore, I still don't see how anyone can respect a man or take a man seriously whose life is based on deception and manipulation. The name of his production company is, or was when he made Canadian Bacon, PROPOGANDA FILMS for crimenies sake!

You agree with what he is saying, but much of what he is a saying is based on lies, so how can you trust anything he says? He portrays himself as a documentarian, but whenever his "facts" are challenged he claims to be a comedian and is therefore not responsible for the massive innaccuracies in his work (see the Lou Dobbs of CNN interview from the Wallstreet Journal article) Once the pandora's box is opened, you can't close it. Once you are proven to be a liar and a SEVERE capitalist in socialist clothing and its exposed that you are a hypocrit in every facet of your life, how can you expect to ever be taken seriously again?

Evidently Michael Moore has figured out how and is making himself disgustingly rich in the process. You are being worked and manipulated by him. He is a fraud and a leech and is preying on liberal sympathies to make himself into what he claims to hate about America. Michael Moore doesn't hate America, he loves America because its Americans who fall for his absolute bull**** and shell out millions to see his like minded, back patting rubbish.

He is a con-artist... and you are the mark.

Ok, now The Strangler really has left the building... unless Dyflon posts some evidence for the Iraqi's being murdered by US soldiers which I really want to see (and no, I'm not being a smartass, I really would like to see it)

[Dylflon]

I probably should have posted this earlier. This site is really leftist but it has a comprehensive database on how, when and where civilians have died due to military intervention. Make sure you click the database link below the total death toll.

Iraqi Body Count

[Typhoid]

Strangler, we Get CNN and pretty much all of the American news channels here, so i think we was generally referring to them.

And of course the news is going to be biased and show only good things in Iraq, you know why, because the news is controlled by the government, Oh, and whats this an election is coming up soon. So of curse Bush wouldnt want bad media in Iraq because it was his idea to do what they are doing, and if people see innocent people dying, their opinions might change of him. IMO.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Strangler, we Get CNN and pretty much all of the American news channels here, so i think we was generally referring to them.

And of course the news is going to be biased and show only good things in Iraq, you know why, because the news is controlled by the government, Oh, and whats this an election is coming up soon. So of curse Bush wouldnt want bad media in Iraq because it was his idea to do what they are doing, and if people see innocent people dying, their opinions might change of him. IMO.

Sarcasm really doesn't register with you, does it. My point was that the US media ISN'T positive about the war... AT ALL. Even FoxNews is skeptical about the outcome. Maybe they are less negative than CBC or the BBC, but being less negative doesn't make you positive.

Dyflon, let me check out the site you posted and get my feedback to you soon.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

And of course the news is going to be biased and show only good things in Iraq, you know why, because the news is controlled by the government

I fear for the future of Canada.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Bond

I fear for the future of Canada.

Why, im not the one running the country, and i assure you, not everyone is as stupidly opinionated as myself


Oh, and Strangler, sorry, im not able to read sarcasm in text. I kind of have to have a hint you know, like a reminder or something. I think i might be the only one here not able to read sarcasm over the internet. Man i gotta work on my internet sarcasm detecting skills.




LOL...BBC?....were not British you know....

[Bond]

Really? Thanks... I feel much better now.

[Professor S]

This includes civilian deaths resulting from the breakdown in law and order, and deaths due to inadequate health care or sanitation.

While being unfortunate this is not exactly civilians getting shot now, is it?

Also, when reading the actual Targets from the attacks that they have added to their body count, they are including all terrorist attacks from insurgents against allied forces, Iraqi politicians and Iraqi civilians. Many of these deaths that are reported don't even involve the US military in any way at all.

This is their excuse for doing this:

In the current occupation phase the database includes all deaths which the Occupying Authority has a binding responsibility to prevent under the Geneva Conventions and Hague Regulations.

That along with the first quote basically makes the US military responsible for nearly any death that even remotely has a connection to the US's presence in Iraq.

Also, the Geneva Convention and Hague Reguations are extremely dated especially when it comes to acts of terrorism. Back when these rules were written, people didn't drive car bombs up to mosques. The rules were written to prevent indirectly or directly intentional abuse by an occupying power, and had no precedence for warfare taken to the populace.

But for the purposes of this argument, I'm going to give them all to you. Every single civilian death that is even remotely connected to the US occupation. In fact, I'll even give you an even 15,000 deaths this year, instead of the 11,317 that the website you posted as the MAX.

So that makes the score as follows:

US Military: 15,000 civilian deaths a year

Saddam's Iraq: 50,000 civilian deaths a year*

Wow, looks like the US military saved 35,000 civilan lives this year. Thank for the support Dyflon

*based on reported 1.5 million Iraqi civilians killed over Saddam's 30 year reign as Iraq's ruler. This also does not include the hundreds of thousands of Iranians killed during the 10 year war in the 1980's that was a result of Saddam's aggression.

[Dylflon]

S**t. I wasn't arguing anything with you. You asked for a source and I provided one. I'm not saying people never died when Saddam was in power.

But people are still dying due to the occupation.

As you said

being less negative doesn't make you positive.

[Typhoid]

Hey Hey, Strangler, Dylflon, i have a pic for both of you.



















jk...carry on with your little internet tussle for power.

[Dylflon]

...for me? You shouldn't have. Mainly because you're a lot worse than I am. Onwards ho, Captain Hypocrite!

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

S**t. I wasn't arguing anything with you. You asked for a source and I provided one. I'm not saying people never died when Saddam was in power.

But people are still dying due to the occupation.

As you said

Oooooooh, Dyflon.. That was a good one. That stung a little. Throwing someone's words back in your face sounds like something I would do. Excellent job, young Padawan...

Too bad you have fallen to the Darkside

[Typhoid]

haha, Strangler, + reps for the star wars thing.

[Jonbo298]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

Too bad you have fallen to the Darkside