The Republican Convention

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

I think thats a double standard. The Democrats have been just as harsh against Bush, except during their convention, and have received no criticism for it. When the Republicans do the same thing, they are reamed a new a-hole for it. Its the same thing with the 527 advertisement issue.

And it should be about BOTH who did what when and what how. What a politician did in the past is the ONLY device you can use to measure what he will do in the future. Based on that evidence, Kerry has little credibility on the anti-terrorism stances he has claimed now and it is a VERY valid argument to bring up in a campaign or debate.

As for your points about Zell Miller, he believes he isn;t wishy washy at all, but that the Democratic party has abandoned HIM, and if you look at modern political history he has a point. If you look at the platform that JFK ran on, he appears much more of a moderate Republican by today's standards than a Democrat.

I've never noticed a double standard, but it always seemed as if the republican party did a lot more fingerpointing than the democratic party. A very good example is the Clinton affair, it was blown way out of proportion, some may argue that theres no proof that it was directly from the Republicans though, but as soon as the 9/11 disaster hit, when all planes were grounded, Bush, with the US Governments money sent I think about 96 Bin Laden family members home on jets. I think that if the situations were turned, the Republicans would have made sure this was public.....just my two cents.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by GiMpY-wAnNaBe

I've never noticed a double standard, but it always seemed as if the republican party did a lot more fingerpointing than the democratic party.

I should have been more specific. I was referring to the 527 situation and how the Republican party is being held responsible for the Swift Boat ads, while the democratic party is rarely ever associated with organixzations like MoveOn and The Media Fund, which have accrued nearly 10 times the camapaign funds of the Republican Party.

[Dylflon]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

And it should be about BOTH who did what when and what how. What a politician did in the past is the ONLY device you can use to measure what he will do in the future.

I remember that in the past George Bush promised the capture of Osama Bin Laden. I remember that out of the blue he forgot all about Osama and sent his nation's army to occupy Iraq. I remember that when no WMDs were found he changed what he said the mission was about, "freeing the Iraqi people". I remember that because of his administration the highest amount of jobs had been lost since the great depression.

Are these past actions any indication as to what George W. Bush may do in the future if he's re-elected?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

I remember that in the past George Bush promised the capture of Osama Bin Laden. I remember that out of the blue he forgot all about Osama and sent his nation's army to occupy Iraq.

If you think Bush "forgot" about Osama Bin Laden you obviously don't absorb more than the TV tells you. We still have troops in Afghanistan, are currently still working with Pakistan to find him. Do we have our full forces in Afghanistan? No, as it does not take an army to bring in one man. That would be a complete waste of resources that would be better used forming a democracy in a country and region thats known only death and oppression for the last 30 years. A democracy that could change the entire middle east over the next 20-50 years and would do more to end terrorist than any special ops group or smart bomb could ever do.

I remember that when no WMDs were found he changed what he said the mission was about, "freeing the Iraqi people".

I also remember both Britain and Russia admitting to giving the US bad intelligence information. I also remember Bill Clinton evicerating the CIA during his tenure which led to our dependence on foreign forms of intelligence. I also remember the evidence found after the occupation of Iraq that Saddam had ordered a nuclear missile delivery system from North Korea. I also remember that Iraq had thousands of pounds of chemical and biological weaponry in 1998 (found by the UN), which led to the whole UN inspection debacle, and which also magically "disappeared" with no evidence of destruction. I also remember Iraq completely refusing to cooperate with the UN inspectors and openly defying the world into believing he still had them, which the whole world, including the previous administration, thought he still did. I also remember that Iraq was the only country to have used chemical weapons since the vietnam war. I also remember Iraq attacking two separate nations (Iran and Kuwait) in the span of ten years with no provocation. I also remember Iraq under Saddam attempting to develop their own nuclear missile system in the early eighties but it was destroyed by the Isreali's.

And by the way, the Bush administration has never said that they don't believe that there were never WMD in Iraq during the time in which the inpections were being stopped by Saddam. Did they change PR strategies? Yes, because too many news organizations would rather look past the obvious to find the sensational story, but the administration has never said they don't believe that Saddam did not have them.

I remember that because of his administration the highest amount of jobs had been lost since the great depression.

I also remember the tech bubble that the Clinton administration sat by and watched burst in Bush's face. I also remember a little event called "the worst terrorist attack in world history" that happened on our shores that led to the job rates falling horribly over the next 6 months. I also remember that the US has one of the best employment rates IN THE WORLD and at its current level is the same during 1996 when our oh so popular president Bill Clinton was re-elected.

See? I can remember stuff too...

[Jonbo298]

Would you like a cookie now?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Jonbo298

Would you like a cookie now?

Wow. A witty retort meant to counter the seriousness of my post, but without any substance of any kind. How very typical.

I'm officially retiring from political debates for a while, as I just realized that not only have I pointed out these little tidbits of information over and over again in the past 2 years, but that poeple just choose to ignore them, as Jonbo just did, instead preferring to believe in their own political dogma rather than whats staring them right in the face.

I will leave you with this little note:

There is only one other president, in my opinion, who has had to deal with more than Bush during his tenure in office, and that is Franklin Roosevelt, and it took him 3 terms and one 3 year world war (which endeed a 10 year economic depression) to right the ship. By this standard Bush is not only succeeding but is doing an amazing job.

[Rumpelstilzchen]

RIP Strangler of the Liberals.

You have transcended to a better place.

... a place unclouded by the ignorance which was forced against your intelligence.

Though your posts will be missed, I can't help but laugh at the ineptitude of the competition against ye.

Wait, which one of you kids told me this was a serious place with intelligent discussion?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

Wow. A witty retort meant to counter the seriousness of my post, but without any substance of any kind. How very typical.

I'm officially retiring from political debates for a while, as I just realized that not only have I pointed out these little tidbits of information over and over again in the past 2 years, but that poeple just choose to ignore them, as Jonbo just did, instead preferring to believe in their own political dogma rather than whats staring them right in the face.

I was waiting for someone to say that... not for you retiring from debates, but everything else, heh. Good job.

Funny how the liberals on this board claim to be open minded (unlike yourself, according to them), yet they won't open their mind to the facts, only what they believe or claim to know. Pitiful.

[Jonbo298]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

Wow. A witty retort meant to counter the seriousness of my post, but without any substance of any kind. How very typical.

I'm officially retiring from political debates for a while, as I just realized that not only have I pointed out these little tidbits of information over and over again in the past 2 years, but that poeple just choose to ignore them, as Jonbo just did, instead preferring to believe in their own political dogma rather than whats staring them right in the face.

I will leave you with this little note:

There is only one other president, in my opinion, who has had to deal with more than Bush during his tenure in office, and that is Franklin Roosevelt, and it took him 3 terms and one 3 year world war (which endeed a 10 year economic depression) to right the ship. By this standard Bush is not only succeeding but is doing an amazing job.

My comment was only meant as a joke to your "See I can remember stuff too...."

I wasn't referring to your entire post. I read it.

Next time I'll remember to quote the area I meant to talk about.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

I'm officially retiring from political debates for a while, as I just realized that not only have I pointed out these little tidbits of information over and over again in the past 2 years, but that poeple just choose to ignore them, as Jonbo just did, instead preferring to believe in their own political dogma rather than whats staring them right in the face.

You have seen the light.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

oi, no matter how many times this topic comes up, it ALWAYS turns into Strangler, Gekko and Bond (AKA the Republicans) vs everyone else (AKA....everyone else)....ah well

It always leads to a comment similar to what Jonbo posted which starts flaming, hopefully it won't escalate this time.
p.s., i know there are more republicans in the forums, i just forgot who you are.

[Jonbo298]

Well, like I said in my other post, I was just referring to Strangler's last little sentence. I never actually meant to make Strangler so pissed off he gives up. I read his post. I just forgot to quote what I meant to reply to.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by GiMpY-wAnNaBe

oi, no matter how many times this topic comes up, it ALWAYS turns into Strangler, Gekko and Bond (AKA the Republicans) vs everyone else (AKA....everyone else)....ah well

It always leads to a comment similar to what Jonbo posted which starts flaming, hopefully it won't escalate this time.
p.s., i know there are more republicans in the forums, i just forgot who you are.

The problem is we only debate one or two issues. If we would debate more issues it would not always end up like that.

[Professor S]

Jonbo, just to clarify, it wasn't your post that made me have my catharsis, it was more reading my own response to Dyflon's post which made me realize two things:

1) I have repeated myself over and over and over again in the same arguments, as Bond pointed out.

and

2) No one is listening. I'm talking to myself. I'm repeating facts and examples to those who aren't absorbing them and don't care to listen to anything that doesn't sit well with their already predetermined beliefs.

So why bother? Answer: I shouldn't.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

i think both sides are being a stubborn about understanding the other point of view.