Obama Chooses Joe Biden as VP - Page 4

BreakABone · 08-30-2008, 10:51 AM

As an aside saw Obama's speech yesterday and maybe it is I watch too much wrestling, but the whole thing had a WrestleMania feel to it.

Huge set piece. Outside. Titantron. Fireworks going off the top of the building. Confetti.

MAybe he did smell What The Barack is cooking.

Professor S · 08-30-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BreakABone

As an aside saw Obama's speech yesterday and maybe it is I watch too much wrestling, but the whole thing had a WrestleMania feel to it.

Huge set piece. Outside. Titantron. Fireworks going off the top of the building. Confetti.

MAybe he did smell What The Barack is cooking.

On a non-partisan note, I thank that spectatcle was a big mistake. It only does more to feed the McCain advertising machine when it comes to painting Obvama as an out-of-touch elitist celebrity, and those ads have been very successful.

Obama needed to give a state of the union address, heavy on substance and not spectacle. He added a little more policy to his acceptance speech, but he should have done much more. I think he was overly negative about the plight of the American people as well. A lot of middle class won't want to hear how bad they're doing, especially if they're not doing all that bad.

The Germanator · 08-30-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor S

On a non-partisan note, I thank that spectatcle was a big mistake. It only does more to feed the McCain advertising machine when it comes to painting Obvama as an out-of-touch elitist celebrity, and those ads have been very successful.

Obama needed to give a state of the union address, heavy on substance and not spectacle. He added a little more policy to his acceptance speech, but he should have done much more. I think he was overly negative about the plight of the American people as well. A lot of middle class won't want to hear how bad they're doing, especially if they're not doing all that bad.

While I don't necessarily disagree with your criticisms of his speech as I would like to see more substance as well, I think the the "celebrity/elitist" ads are absolutely ludicrous. Maybe you can help me with this, but what exactly is that ad campaign even trying to accomplish? "Look at all of those Obama supporters!! Haha! THEY REALLY LIKE THEIR CANDIDATE!! Hey guys, look how popular this guy is, don't vote for the really popular guy that everyone likes!" I patrol the Fark.com forums and when the Republican trolls (not saying you are one of them by any means, they are far worse

) have nothing better to say they just say something like "Ooh, look at the Obamesiah and his followers, etc, etc...The best you can do is attack the guy because people like him? It just seems totally transparent.

I suppose it could be more effective for an independent, but I feel like McCain has lost his "elitism" angle anyway. In this race we have a black guy who was raised by a single mother in a middle class family who worked his way up to go to a good school. This same guy turned down a higher paying job to go into public service. And this guy is an elitist?! I'm sorry, I thought the gray haired white man who can't remember how many houses he had fits that bill. I'm very thankful the Obama campaign hit him hard on that as well. If there is one thing Republicans do better it is to attack worthless tidbits better, but I'm glad the Obama campaign latched on to the "7 houses gaffe" along with the "not rich until you make 5 million line." I don't know, I just see that whole ad campaign as grasping for straws from McCain, and I hope that independent minded voters aren't idiotic enough to fall for something that can be seen through so easily.

Professor S · 08-30-2008, 01:50 PM

I never said the Obama elitism attacks are necessarily valid. I'm saying they are EFFECTIVE, and they are. McCain has been steadily gaining on Obama since they began, and the star-studded stadium spectacle that was his aceptance speech only fed into that image McCain and Co. are trying to create.

Also, the chanting of O-BAM-A in the ads is meant to play on the fanaticism that has followed Obama's campaign, with the fainting women and all, and create nervousness about it. Its been effective as well, especially since Obama is the more unknown out of the two candidates. McCain is McCain, and he has a long record that makes people more comfortable. Obama is still a relative unknown, and there are a lot of people that are uneasy voting for a political unknown for President. Like my wife, and she's a life long democrat but is voting McCain this year. And trust me, it has nothing to do with my influence. She never listens to me anyway...

Fyacin · 08-31-2008, 12:02 PM

I don't understand how you can be against abortion and vote for Obama. I don't understand how you can be a christian and vote for Obama. He is the most pro-abortion senator ever. Economic issues notwithstanding.

TheGame · 08-31-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyacin

I don't understand how you can be against abortion and vote for Obama. I don't understand how you can be a christian and vote for Obama. He is the most pro-abortion senator ever. Economic issues notwithstanding.

As for the Abortion thing, time has shown that there's not going to be an outright answer enforced for it. There's always going to be enough pro life people out there to keep the fight alive. Since this is america, choice is going to win eventually even though I think its wrong. I didn't see Bush making any strong stands on it or making any changes to how its handled, nor do I expect Mccain to.

And last I checked both Mccain and Obama are christians.

Jason1 · 08-31-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyacin

I don't understand how you can be against abortion and vote for Obama. I don't understand how you can be a christian and vote for Obama. He is the most pro-abortion senator ever. Economic issues notwithstanding.

I cant believe that religion/abortion is always such a big issue. I could give a shit what religion either of the candidates are. And abortion is such a non-issue in the grand scheme of things. Its not going to change, no way no how. Get over it people, someones stance on Abortion has nothing to do with what kind of president they will be. Same with religion.

I would love to see an athiest win. It will never happen because there are way too many right wing nut job conservatives. I cant wait for Religulous to come out.

TheGame · 08-31-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason1

I cant believe that religion/abortion is always such a big issue.

They always will be, though I agree in politics it probably shouldn't be. Abortion is something I've given up on for a while though, both views on it has valid points, I just personally think its wrong. I don't think any president is really going to make a strong stand on it.

As for voting based off of open promotion of one's religion, that was one of the big things that sold me for Bush. In the end, once he got back in office he stopped sounding like a chritian and I think just went back to his true self. All Bush did by doing that before, is made me turn religion into a non factor when it comes to my vote.

The only way I'd accept it as a factor again is someone who was running did openly deny christ and said they are an athiest. In the case of this year, I'm not gonna vote for mccain because he's "more openly christian" then Obama. Because the truth is that when they're open about any opinion like that, they're doing it for votes.

KillerGremlin · 09-02-2008, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason1

I cant believe that religion/abortion is always such a big issue. I could give a shit what religion either of the candidates are. And abortion is such a non-issue in the grand scheme of things. Its not going to change, no way no how. Get over it people, someones stance on Abortion has nothing to do with what kind of president they will be. Same with religion.

I would love to see an athiest win. It will never happen because there are way too many right wing nut job conservatives. I cant wait for Religulous to come out.

Abraham Lincoln was a purported Atheist I believe. Maybe not by definition, but apparently he had religious doubts.

I suspect with minimal research you would find that many historical figures deemed themselves 'doubters' of religion.

Fyacin · 08-31-2008, 02:58 PM

See I am going to have to disagree there, abortion is a big enough issue for me that I will not vote for anyone that is for it. Don't want to derail this thread into an abortion debate though (or a religious one).

Bond · 08-31-2008, 04:44 PM

McCain has actually been historically very reluctant to talk about his religion.

TheGame · 08-31-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bond

McCain has actually been historically very reluctant to talk about his religion.

That's actually true from what I have seen. My point, however, was that religion is not going to sway my vote one way ot the other unles one canidate is openly denies christ. The Mccain point was merely an example, I could edit the names and switch them around and it still means the same thing.

Professor S · 09-01-2008, 02:28 PM

Game, I can see our differences in conservative belief then, and you're pretty much the exact opposite of me.

I'm very fiscally conservative and socially moderate, and you flip that, but please don;t state that when it comes to the economy Obama reflects a conservative nature. Our founders believed in individuals, not a collectivist government.

Personally, I don't believe the US government has much of anything to do with social issues. That is for the society that the goevrnment protects to decide, at leat to a point.

My social issues:

1) Abortion - No abortions after the 4th month. If the mother's life is in jeopardy after that time, then the doctor decides which is more viable if a coice must be made (which will likely be the mother). The point is, once a life is declared a life, they are all equal. Life is life.

2) Stem-Cell Research - I love it, just not from embyos. All the promising advances in this research come from areas other than embryonic stem cells, such as umbillical (sp?) cord stem cells. This is an abortion fight by proxy, and wile I'm moderate on abortion, the idea of creating the first steps of life for the intention of destroying it kind of sickens me.

3) Gay Marriage - If gay marriage threatens hetrero marriage, then marriage is a very weak institution. The truth is the anti-gay marriage ban is just a way to socially separate gays from straights. Its silly this is such a huge issue in politics.

4) Immigration - Forget the illegal immigrants, and go after the employers... HARD. If no one was hiring illegals, there wouldn't be so many here because there would be no reason for them to cross over. Until there is a solution that centers on businesses hiring the illegals, all this talk is nothing but lip service.

KillerGremlin · 09-02-2008, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor S

1) Abortion - No abortions after the 4th month.

2) Stem-Cell Research - I love it, just not from embyos.

Why not set up a program that harvests aborted stem-cells, seems like a win-win to me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor S

3) Gay Marriage - If gay marriage threatens hetrero marriage, then marriage is a very weak institution. The truth is the anti-gay marriage ban is just a way to socially separate gays from straights. Its silly this is such a huge issue in politics.

agreed. from a social standpoint, marriage is just an institution between two people. never understood the opposition to gay marriage other than ignorance and discrimination.

TheGame · 09-02-2008, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

agreed. from a social standpoint, marriage is just an institution between two people. never understood the opposition to gay marriage other than ignorance and discrimination.

I don't have problems with civil unions between 2 people, I just have a problem with calling it marriage. It mostly has to do with my religion though, how I see it, marriage is moral, homosexuality is immoral. Mixing the two is a perversion of what it originally means.

As for my stance as being pro life, to me its just common sense. I don't believe people should have the right to kill their own children. Of course there are special circumstances that I can sympathise with, but unless the child poses a health threat to the parent, or has no chance of coming out medically sound, then I'm against it.

My question would be, where do you find the contradiction in the one liner you quoted? They're completly different subjects.