Final Fantasy Megathread

[magus113]

It's a decent length for a handheld RPG. I think you could do it with grinding in 25-30 hours

[Ginkasa]

Just an update partially to say "Hey, I'm still playin!" but also because I'm bored.

Right now I'm about to enter the Tower of Babil. I've held off for a couple of days 'cause I really haven't had that much time to play and the Tower of Babil is a bit of a longer dungeon. Yes, I have "Quicksave," but I hate to quit in the middle of a dungeon.

Anyway....

Rather than writing an awesome novel or making a cool short video or concocting a plan to make in Hollywood I was thinking about the FF series the other day. Particularly I was thinking about a pattern I had once heard about. Basically, I had read once that "fans" considered the series to follow a "even/odd" pattern similarly to the Star Trek movies. However, instead of one being good and the other bad, the odds focused on gameplay and the evens focused on story. This only applied to I-VI.

I was thinking about that and decided they were wrong. While I do agree you could see a pattern with the odds and evens it wasn't what they thought. I think they both focus on story and gameplay equally (for the most part). It has more to do with the tone and themes of the games. Essentially, if someone played I, III, and V and told those were part of one series and then played II, IV, and VI and were told those were part of a different series, I think they could be easily convinced.

Let's look at the odds: I, III, and V. Each game has the "Job system" in some form. In "I" you choose the jobs at the very beginning and are stuck with them except for one optional upgrade. III and V allow you to switch throughout the game. V let's you trade abilities between jobs.

They also have stories that focus on crystals, elemental demons, and destined Warriors of Light. In each game there are 4 Warriors (with a replacement 5th member in V) that are predestined to be Warriors. They don't really rise up and prove their worth; they display crystals or orbs or Jobs and have their worth handed to them. In I and III (minus the DS remake) they don't even have names or personalities. Just their titles.

They battle not against empires or men, but forces larger than mere human comprehension. A mysterious dark force that steals light from the crystals or a demon from beyond time. The villains have no real personality or even motive beyond the death of everything.

The evens are different - II, IV, and VI. These games don't necessarily feature one continuous gameplay feature like the Job system, but they do have and different theme and tone from the other games.

For one, they each have a larger cast of characters each with personalities and personal histories with VI, of course, being the largest. Each hero is, if not necessarily a "normal" person, is also not destined to be a hero or a legend. They are gifted individuals who see evil in the world and rise up against it, even if the odds are stacked against their favor. They have relationships and hopes and dreams beyond just the current struggle or battle.

The enemies are also more complex and less ambiguous. The heroes battle earthly forces - empires and armies. The villains have reasons beyond simply "being evil" for their wicked ways. They're not demons or gods, at least not until the end - they're just really bad men.

The only hiccup to this formula is IV. It has crystals and Zermous pretty easily fits the bill for evil ambigous evil that wants to destroy existence. Also, while it doesn't have the Job system it does have characters who are clearly said to fit within the Jobs from the prior games. However, it also Golbez, who is just an really powerful (moon) man and armies and whatnot.

Maybe later I'll get into more detail about why I think the other pattern is bollocks.

[Typhoid]

I forgot I'm still playing IV! Oops.
I ended up getting stuck and didn't know what do to (most likely because of painkillers) so I gave up and haven't touched it in almost a week now. I'm probably very early on, still. My mans are only around level 20.

[magus113]

I got bit by the Modern Warfare 2 bug, and then I've been doing some charting with Earl since I found out about the double XP weekend last week. It also reminded me that I need to finish Eternal Sonata because it's good and I've barely touched it I want to say in the last month.

I'm all over the place.

[Ginkasa]

I mentioned in my previous post regardng a "gameplay/story" pattern that is supposed to be evident in the early FF titles. Basically, the odd games were supposed to focus on the gameplay while the evens simplified the gameplay while focusing on story. I also mentioned that I believe this pattern is complete dung. In the extreme delusion that anyone cares I will expand upon this belief. Please note, I did consider that maybe this pattern was dervied from the American I-III rather than the Japanese I-VI (which would completely change the dynamic, although I still think it wouldn't work), but I don't think 3 games is really enough for someone to ascertain a pattern.

So, I'll be breaking down each game and explaining why it doesn't fit the pattern. Remember, odd games are supposed to have simple stories with a greater focus on gameplay while even games are supposed have simple gameplay with a focus on story.


I: Really, since this is the first game its really hard to try to say whether it had an agenda in regards to a proposed pattern especially since there was not initially expected to be a sequel. Granted, it does have the simplest story of all the FF games and tells its story pretty poorly compared to to other jRPGs at the time, but I still don't think you could say it was the start of the pattern.

II: In the pattern's defense, II does have a more detailed and better told story than I. However, it also implemented an entirely new and different gameplay system in terms of stat increase. It also changed the gameplay around by switching up the 4th party member constantly throughough the game. Yes, you can say II has a larger focus on story, but you can't say it doesn't focus on gameplay (no matter how broken it is).

III: Its hard to really compare this one since I've never played the original Famicom version, but I still think it doesn't really fit the pattern. Sure, it introduces the Job system so there's definitely a focus on gameplay. I think the story, however, is no weaker than II's. Sure, you have nameless and faceless heroes in the original, but I feel that changes the tone more than quality. Basically, I think III comes off more as an epic poem whil II comes off more as a fantasy novel. Just different, but not inferior.

IV: This game, honestly, is the game that most closely fits the pattern. You have no choice over how your characters develop or who is in your party. Abilities are decided solely by level rather than purchasing them or levelling up jobs or whatnot. The story, of course, is the best one so far in the series. It has the best developed characters and the richest story at this point. However, it also introduced the ATB system which is the mostly widely used purely gameplay system in the series (and other series!) that wasn't initially introduced in I and is also the only game in the series to allow 5 characters in battle at once. I'd say they definitely had an eye on making it an exciting gameplay experience as well as story.

V: Once again we have the Job system. Perhaps the pattern was simply thought of because the odd games always use some form of the Job system which could be argued was pretty indepth for its time. Of course, they're ignoring that using the same system multiple times was probably easier than creating something from scratch. I'm not saying that there wasn't effort put into V (there are certainly refinements and adjustments and additions to the system from III), but I can't see how it shows the devleopers were focusing more on gameplay than story. While the story isn't as fantastic as IV, its still much better than the NES titles and has its moments. Let's just say Galuf's moment is better played than Tellah's.

VI: Yeah, arguably the best story in the series. You got me there. But it also introduced the Esper ability system (which spawned the Materia system in VII, certainly partially influenced the Junction system in VIII, is very similar to the ABility system in IX, etc.) and introduced Desparation Attacks which also influenced other similar systems in later games (most widely known are Limit Breaks from VII). It also has the most playable characters in the series each with their own unique abilities that may or may not be inspired by the Jobs from previous games. There's no way you could say the story came at the expense of the gameplay.

So, there you go. Sure, you could maybe argue that the evens games had the best stories, but I don't think you can argue that it was at the expense of the gameplay or that the odds have bad stories. Basically, people were just reading patterns into where they didn't belong.

Tune in next time as I rant on another random topic in the middle of the night!

[TheSlyMoogle]

Uhm 6 is really the only game that doesn't fit the pattern. 1,3 and 5 do have terrible stories. 5 is the worst offender in my opinion considering the time of its creation. It's pretty obvious in that game the just focused basically on the battle system. Honestly the guy probably wrote the game script in like a night while drinking copious amounts of Saki.

2 and 4 are basically just a story. You can honestly go through both just mashing buttons if you fight enough random battles.

6 is the only one with something different to offer, however... 90% of the bosses and enemies in the game can be defeated with the vanish/doom technique and there's another technique that can be used on those who can't. So I think 6 can go either way. Yeah you can make it complex, or you can just go with it.

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

Uhm 6 is really the only game that doesn't fit the pattern. 1,3 and 5 do have terrible stories. 5 is the worst offender in my opinion considering the time of its creation. It's pretty obvious in that game the just focused basically on the battle system. Honestly the guy probably wrote the game script in like a night while drinking copious amounts of Saki.

2 and 4 are basically just a story. You can honestly go through both just mashing buttons if you fight enough random battles.

6 is the only one with something different to offer, however... 90% of the bosses and enemies in the game can be defeated with the vanish/doom technique and there's another technique that can be used on those who can't. So I think 6 can go either way. Yeah you can make it complex, or you can just go with it.

Okay, so rather than "Uhm, no you're dumb"ing each other why don't we actually refer to points and actually debate on something tangible than "No, I'm right because!"?

Regarding the stories, its subjective in the end. V, maybe, sure. Its not that great, but it has its moments. You disagree, so okay. I don't agree with III. Like I said before, its just different. I think the individual "episodes" within the towns and whatnot are much more memorable than the entire story of II. I can see how someone might prefer II's story, though. Again, subjective. They're just different. I is just primitive. It might not be good, but you can't say they didn't try; they didn't focus on the story.

Gameplay, however, I think you're wrong. II, yes, may be broken. It might ultimately boil down to "A, B, A, B, A" for an hour and instant win. But the system itself was brand new and it was pretty risky for a company who just on the verge of closure and only saved by a single game to completely alter the gameplay to the sequel to that game. It might be broken and easily exploitable, but there was definitely a lot of focus put on creating that system.

You're argument against IV's gameplay is silly, IMO. Pretty much any FF game can be beaten by levelling up enough or exploiting whatever system is in place. Now, granted, I did say that IV fits the bill the most. The player has no input on character development or abilities beyond levelling up. However, the additional abilities and switching up the party with completely different characters adds a lot to the gameplay. Its out of the player's control, sure, but it works. I'd say it works better than III's Job System.

And VI... really? I've never heard of the Vanish/Doom technique. Maybe its there and maybe it cheapens the gameplay. Same thing with II, though: just because its broken doesn't mean it wasn't focused upon. VI pretty much decided the path series took from then on. Pretty much everything it introduced got carried on in future games. You may not like it, there may be two spells that can be easily exploited, but the gameplay was definitely not glossed over in favor of the story.

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

Yup such a good game.

So since I have decided to do something I wanted to do for a while while you're busting out FF1-3.

I'm going to do an all thief run of FF 1 using the original NES version.

Supposedly one of the hardest things to do in a ff game is this.

Going to do it.

I know you're thinking "WHITE MAGE WOULD BE RETARDED HARD"

But this is only true until you get White Wizard.

How's this going? Still happening, or abandoned?

Anyway, I beat IV a couple of days ago. I have to admit, right after beating it I had a pretty huge hankerin' to play THe AFter Years, so I bought the "core game" and got to it. I really wasn't able to get much into it. There's a couple possible reasons, but I'll stick with slight guilt that I hadn't yet finished with my "core" FF marathon.

In regards to IV itself I don't have much to say. I-III were either the first times I had beaten those games or the first time in a long time, so I had a fairly new experience. IV I had previously beaten less than two year ago when the DS remake came out, and several times before that.

IV did used to be one of my favorite of the FF games. I probably wouldn't say that now. Before, I didn't really appreciate being able to develop character abilities or whatnot, so having everything decided was nice. As I've gotten older I've begun to enjoy being able to customize my characters a bit. I still don't really enjoy it when the characters are completely blank slates, though. In those cases its usually either too easy to give them everything or the system is so complicated and tedious you have to read a novel of instructions and then spend hours in order to accomplish anything.

I also think the plot sort of cheats a little in regards to character death. I don't mind thinking someone has died only to see them return later if its plausible, but this game flat out cheats. Besides the one true death there are three (or four depending on how you count) fake deaths and each one cheats in bringing the person (or people) back.

1) Not really death, but an "incurable" condition. But if someone identified as "the great sage" can't cure it, how can the "elder" do it without any fanfare or anything? Its a cheat.

2) I don't care what you're made of. You can not survive a fall from hundreds of feet in the air PLUS an explosion from a bomb in your hand! There's not even an explanation. He just survives.

3) I'm not even sure why the third one even had to "sacrifice" himself. Its not explained what he was doing or how it would lead to his death and why it couldn't have been prevented. I suppose his survival of this is somewhat believeable since I don't even know what it was that's supposed to kill him. Explosion of the equipment? Some ultimate machine destroying technique that sucks out life energy? Maybe he was just hoping to get away from his abusive wife.

Overall, I still enjoy FFIV. Its up there with the "good" FFs, but its just not my favorite anymore.

[Ginkasa]

Final Fantasy V Wiki Page


Released in Japan for the Super Famicom in 1992. Final Fantasy V was not initially released in NA due to Square deeming it too inaccessible to American gamers. There were plans to localize and release the game as "Final Fantasy Extreme" in order to market it to more experienced gamers who would enjoy the complex Job system. Plans for that release fell through however, and FFV did not see the light in NA (legally anyway) until 1999 when released for the Playstation along with FFVI in the Final Fantasy Anthology collection.

V's story returns to the basic crystal story presented in I and III. Something wicked is draining the light from the four elemental crystals and only the destined Light Warriors can save the day. Unlike I and III, however, V gave names and faces to our Warriors of Light:

- Bartz Klauser: A wandering adventurer. He at first becomes involved in the story due to chance, but his destiny is later revealed to be much less coincidental.

- Lenna Charlotte Tycoon: The princess of Tycoon. The game begins as she heads toward the Wind Shrine out of concern for the safety of her father, King Tycoon.

- Galuf Helm Baldesion: An old man with amnesia. All he remembers when discovered is his name and his destination: the Wind Shrine. His mysterious past is revealed during the game.

- Faris Scherwiz: A pirate who is initially believed to be male, but later reveals herslef as a woman in disguise. She has a mysterious connection to Lenna.

- Krile Mayer Baldesion: Galuf's grandaughter. She replaces Galuf later in the game.

Gameplay elements unique to or introduced in FFV:

- The Job system from III returns, but with some new refinements. Job levels are obtained through Ability Points allowing the player to track job advancement. Players are also now able to share a limited amount of abilities between Jobs creating "Super Jobs" (my term, not the games) that have elements from multiple classes.

- The ATB bar is now visible to the player for the first time allowing them to know exactly whose turn is next.

- The first recurring miniboss: Gilgamesh. He is fought st multiple points within the game Gilgamesh also makes cameo appearances in other, later, FF games in various forms.

Final Fantasy V has received a couple of different official releases in North America:

- On the Playstation as part of the Final Fantasy Anthology collection. This was the first official release of the game in NA. Unfortunately, the dialogue translation was far from perfect (most famously giving Faris a "pirate accent" not present in the Japanese version) keeping most gamers loyal to the fanslation from a few years earlier.

- On the Game Boy Advance as Final Fantasy V Advance. This version improved the translation exponentially, although some critics disliked the addition of multiple "pop culture" jokes added in. This version also added a few new jobs and bonus dungeons similar to other GBA FF releases.

Additionally, there is much made of the fact that FFX was the "first" game to receive a sequel, but this was incorrect. Final Fantasy V was, in the fact, the very first Final Fantasy game to have a story sequel; it was not, however, a video game. Final Fantasy: Legend of the Crystals is a four episode OVA released in 1994 in Japan. The anime is set 200 years after FFV featuring descendants of the original game's characters.

Lastly, Cid Watch!:



Cid Previa is an inventor from the Kingdom of Karnak whose knowledge and inventions have led the Kingdom to prosperity. When Cid discovers his machine are damaging the Crystals he attempts to shut them down, but ends up being imprisoned. He laments is failure untilhis grandson, Mid, cheers him up. Cid and Mid later become instrumental, as always, in helping the party discover, restore, and upgrade the airship.

Cid is once again unplayable, however he continues to play a larger role in the story.


*****

I will be playing the GBA version. This is the last FF that I have never beaten. After this game the only one that I haven't played recently is VIII, so we'll see how long I can keep this marathon going. Perhaps I'll get bored while playing through VII, or perhaps I'll going to distance. Oh, the imaginary suspense.

[BreakABone]

Looks like he got bored while playing. :P

Just came in here to post that Final Fantasy 9 will be available on PSN next Tues for 10 bucks.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/...-this-tuesday/

[TheSlyMoogle]

I started it, got like 5 hours in on day 1, and decided to stop. Like, damn, the grinding required for thief run gets all of my hate. Plus it's frustrating.

[Angrist]

So far I've mostly heard good stories about FFIX...

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by Angrist

So far I've mostly heard good stories about FFIX...

I think he was referring to FFI. He was going to do a all thief playthrough. I'm really excited about IX, BTW. My copy got stolen a few months back, so I was really hoping they'd release it on the PSN before I got to it.

Anyway, I'm still going with the marathon. There just didn't seem to be much interest in the thread so I didn't bother updating it. I'm now on VII having just beaten Dyne.

[Xantar]

I'm still interested. You skipped right over your impressions of the best game in the series! I am talking about 6, of course. I used to derive some satisfaction out of being the iconoclast who didn't like 7 that much, but I have been informed that my opinion is no longer controversial...

[magus113]

Originally Posted by Xantar

I'm still interested. You skipped right over your impressions of the best game in the series! I am talking about 6, of course. I used to derive some satisfaction out of being the iconoclast who didn't like 7 that much, but I have been informed that my opinion is no longer controversial...

It happens, but I was in the throes of people that also enjoyed 6.