Journalist throws shoes at Bush

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

Stay on topic please, Fyacin.

This is the thread about New World Orders. I think they plan to do something with shoes.

Well, the topic changed, as many topics do over time. Its nothing new.

Back to your point about the legality of the war:

War over WMD's - I do believe the government thought they would find WMD's in Iraq, the whole world did, but I don't think that was the reason they went to war. I believe the reason was 1) To remove Saddam, who was a true threat to world stability if only because he sat on a ton of oil and was agressive to others that did as well and 2) to establish a true democracy in the middle east.

Illegality - Bush was smart in his war declaration. You'll notice that WMD's were never formally a part of the decision to go to the war, not even in his speech, or maybe I missed it. They talked abotu them a lot, but they never made into the formal declaration to my knowledge. The formal reasons given were more general in terms.

War for Oil - Kind of. I don't think the US wants to take over the area and steal the oil, I think they want to stabalize the world oil supply. That was definitely one of the reasons we went into Iraq both times. Lets face it, everything runs on this shit, and while we're taking steps to try and wean ourselves from oil, just the logistics of our infrastructure and manufacturing alone its going to take decades to make any kind of transition. If much of the world oil supply were suddenly in the hands of someone who worshipped Stalin and Hitler, it could be disasterous on a world wide scale. I don't like the fact that we have to go to war to stabalize resources and I also agree that the western world has created the threat of islamic terror by relying on the politically unstable Middle East for so much of it's energy, but I understand why it has to be done. Call it reluctant acceptance.

My hope is that Iraq will truly become a stable democratic nation, able to stand on its own, and the idea of individual freedom spreads. It always has in history, just as the American Revolution spawned the French Revolution and democracy as whole spread all throughout the western world in a relatively short period of time. We'll have to wait and see, but quite honestly this is the bst chance that region has had to get out of the middle ages since the days before Mohammed.

[Dylflon]

My main hope about the whole conflict is that we come to a place where we all feel that the end justifies the means.

At the same time, I hope in the future that no country will take it upon themselves to occupy a foreign nation without the backing of the UN.

I do feel that the conduct in that region and in your own country was only satisfactory at its best (by in your own country I mean incarceration of individuals without trial). But what's done is done and all we can do is make the best of it I guess.

[Seth]

The US has blatantly lied before about it's reasons for going to war. WW1 and the Vietnam war were both sold to Americans on lies. I don't see what's changed.


edit: oh, and now we have suspended freedoms in light of the possible terror threat. Seems a bit nightmarish to me.