Occupy Wallstreet

TheGame · 01-11-2012, 01:30 AM

Good points in those videos. But Occupy wallstreet isn't a blanket call for regulation or deregulation, so I don't know what relevance this has with the thread. The real issue is that the government's incentive structure is set to bend to the will of giant corperations. So the second video is more on topic in that sense.

I guarantee if any type of deregulation happens it will also feed the large corperations and hurt competition and the quality/price of products too... because that's just how things are run here now. It's very rare that the government passes something that the big banks or giant corperations don't like and that's for the good of the consumers.

Professor S · 01-11-2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGame

I guarantee if any type of deregulation happens it will also feed the large corperations and hurt competition and the quality/price of products too...

That depends on how you go about it, but overall I'd say history doesn't agree with your perspective (but please cite examples if I am incorrect). There are many very public cases where deregulation has led to more choice, lower prices, etc.

Examples:

1) Air travel - The "jet set" used to be a very real thing. Only the very wealthy could afford it. Also, companies like PanAm famously captured the regulatory marketplace and basically owned politicians. When air travel was deregulated in the late 70's more airlines came about, with more routes, and drastically reduced prices. All of this led to more choice for many more people. Air travel is now common for the middle class.

2) Telecommunications - "Ma Bell" was a very real thing as well. Local service was separate from long distance and you could only purchase a phone from the phone company. Not surprisingly, long distance was incredibly expensive (I remember when you had to pay per minute to call another state or even zip code) and the phones didn't advance in technology for 30 years. Once deregulation took place we went from a 30 pound tethered phones to mini-supercomputers in out pockets and calling long distance doesn't make us think twice.

The reason why deregulation, when handled with a cudgel and not an exacto-knife, tends to work is that it separates the corporation from the government. Once separated, the corporation can no longer influence the government because the levers to do so no longer exist. It's like trying to drive a car with no gas. Now the corporation is beholden to the consumer, and the products and prices it creates, and they no longer have the luxury of a government that can force business their way. As bad as the worst corporation is, they still cannot FORCE you to buy anything unless the government makes you.* They actually have to engage in CAPITALISM. Shudder the thought...

But I agree, we have to be vigilant in how "deregulation" happens. As pointed out in those videos, selective deregulation is as counterproductive and over-regulation.

And yes, if you were wondering I am not longer ignoring you (on a trial basis)

*Example: The new healthcare law mandates or in much more impactful cases, intense EPA and OSHA over-regulation. Once of the biggest reasons why new housing in being pushed to either McMansions or large apartment complexes are the sheer number of mandated "safety" features that new construction builders must contend with. It simply is not profitable to build medium sized single famiy homes anymore. To make money, you have to "go big or go home". Meanwhile, these new homes have an average lifespan of about 30 years, if that, while my "dangerous" home built before regulations has been upright for almost 100 years and my parents' home is almost 140 years old.

TheGame · 01-13-2012, 01:51 AM

Yup, we have to be clear about what deregulation is being pursued. It's a two way street. They clearly point out in the videos that corperations have a hand in their own regulations, but the fact remains that they have a hand in their own deregulations (not that any have been done on the federal level any time recently that I can think of).

The point of the occupy wallstreet movement is to draw attention to that hand getting stronger and the economy/people suffering as a result of it.

Teuthida · 01-13-2012, 12:34 PM

Alan Moore walks about occupy protestors.