Occupy Wallstreet - Page 2

Bond · 11-09-2011, 07:52 PM

This image should find a happy home here:

Dylflon · 11-17-2011, 07:57 PM

Anyone paying attention to the crack-down against democracy going on today?

Professor S · 11-17-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylflon

Anyone paying attention to the crack-down against democracy going on today?

I empathize with many of the protesters, but squatting on public land does not equal democracy. To be honest, these people have made their point, but their continued nonsense is just another symptom of what they claim they rail against. Protesting is basically complaining on a large public scale. If you complain, you expect someone else to fix something for you, giving that entity more power to abuse you with their "altruistic" solutions.

Typhoid · 11-17-2011, 08:58 PM

Not that I'm really siding with the idiot-protesters, but how does one "Squat on public land"? It's public. They are the public. Technically they have every right to be in that public park.

The protesters blocking the roads and bridges and shit like that should smarten the fuck up, however. It's not a protest against infrastructure.

I still think they should smarten up, read some books, and propose some legitimate fucking ideas rather than saying "Lol, uhhh, change stuff in favour for us or we'll stay here in the cold weather."

KillerGremlin · 11-18-2011, 05:04 AM

I still see this as the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not saying today. Or tomorrow. Or next week. But the energy is just electric right now. I honestly do not see the protesting going away.

Professor S · 11-18-2011, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Not that I'm really siding with the idiot-protesters, but how does one "Squat on public land"? It's public. They are the public. Technically they have every right to be in that public park.

They absolutely have a right to be in that park, as long as they follow rules and laws regarding its use, and they are NOT. Homeless people are not allowed to squat and public land, so why should we let another bum do the same thing because they happen to have an iPhone and simplistic message?

Just because land is public doesn't mean that I get to do whatever the fuck I want with it. In most cases these parks have hours of operation, and laws regarding their use, in order to protect the public lands for EVERYONE and not just the "99%". These public areas have been defecated on, littered on, and numerous other laws have been broken. So far law enforcement has been LENIENT and allowed these laws to be broken to avoid confrontation. At some point enough is enough.

Bond · 11-18-2011, 03:08 PM

I just wanted to add that Zuccotti Park in NYC, where the "Occupy Wall Street" crowd is hanging out, is actually not public land. Brookfield Properties (a private company) owns the park, but has an agreement with the city of New York to operate it as a "privately owned public space."

So, without the evil corporate slobs at Brookfield Properties, there would be nowhere to protest... hmm...

Typhoid · 11-18-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

I just wanted to add that Zuccotti Park in NYC, where the "Occupy Wall Street" crowd is hanging out, is actually not public land. Brookfield Properties (a private company) owns the park, but has an agreement with the city of New York to operate it as a "privately owned public space."

Then they should definitely get the fuck out of there. They're trespassing. Charge 'em all. (That sounds like sarcasm but it's not.)

Quote:

At some point enough is enough.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Dylflon · 11-19-2011, 06:15 AM

Regardless of whether or not anyone is concerned about the classification of the outdoor spaces currently or previously being occupied, I was more concerned with the violent dispersing of protesters rather than the fact that they were being dispersed. (And I was also perturbed by the news that NYC police would deny access to an area of the city unless you had corporate documentation proving that you work on wall street.)

Acts like taking billy clubs to the stomachs of Berkley students or indiscriminately pepper spraying crowds in Seattle show that the police is more about protecting corporate interests than protecting the first amendment rights of the citizens they're supposedly sworn to protect.

I view this movement as a positive thing. People like to complain that they don't have a concise objective, but reaching consensus among a giant and diverse group of people is never going to be a simple task. The movement is the first step in a process that would hopefully lead to some kind of change. The movement can't create a new system for society or anything, but at least people are voicing the fact that they're not happy. And if nobody stands up and does this, the conversation in the political realm will never change.

However, violently breaking up demonstrations is only going to cause things to escalate in a very negative way.

KillerGremlin · 11-19-2011, 03:05 PM

What!? Damn kids need to get off my lawn!

I fear it is going to get violent from the protestor side based on how quickly and frequently the police have been trying to deescalate these protests with violence.

If someone pepper sprayed Rosa Parks for not giving her seat up on the bus....

Professor S · 11-19-2011, 03:55 PM

Here is a question: People are unlawfully occupying as space, and repeatedly asked to leave. They refuse to leave, and make it a point to do things to resist being removed (such as linking arms, making human walls, etc.).

How do you remove them without some form of violence (dragging someone away against their will is a form of violence)?

Seth · 11-22-2011, 02:46 PM

An article about the start of these OWS protests. Reaffirms something I've assumed about adbusters for a few years. The counter voice is villified(and repainted) through a distorted media lens, and nothing is solved, except driving the still-employed public towards the antithesis of bandana clad curseries. What if we all took a page from Thoreau and refused to pay for these 'wars' that are openly in violation of human rights? Our defense minister recently announced that Canada is going forward with the F-35 program, despite budget shortfalls, which should be worked around minimizing the damage to public supports instead of reaffirming allegiance to NATO atrocities repainted as humanitarian bombings.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27708

Bond · 11-22-2011, 08:06 PM

Okay, I think we all agree these people have a right to protest (in public places) for a period of time. The question is do you allow the protests to naturally die down (we all know they eventually will), or do the police eventually step in and break up the protests? If the police do step in, how long should they wait to step in, and what means are appropriate for the police to use? If the protesters throw rocks are the police allowed or not allowed to use pepper spray? And this could go on and on ... it's just one giant cluster fuck if you ask me.

More importantly, I really don't think these protests are effective at all - they're just preaching to the choir.

Typhoid · 11-23-2011, 03:31 PM

While I don't really agree with protesting after a certain point; at some point you've got to get educated and make logical points rather than just sleeping in a tent.

Anyhow, I'm all for any protest if the protesters want to waste as much time as they desire as long as they: Don't impede people from going to/from work, don't stop safety services from providing safety, don't impede roads/bridges; that type of thing.

If they (any protest) start doing any of those (other than get violent/loot etc), I say get 'em the fuck out of there. Fine them all. hand each and every one of them their own ticket. If they rip up the ticket in defiance, arrest them for doing so.

But if real people want to waste their own goddamn time sitting in the cold rain for something they think is a good idea, fuck it - let them be cold, and wet sitting in some dingy park for months at a time.

But if they start breaking the law, shitting in public, loitering in stores, theft etc, bring the fucking law down on them hard. Breaking the law is one thing, but breaking the law in public while under the guise of standing up for 'the people' is sort of retarded, to me.

The thing is, I don't believe these occupy wallstreet douches want 'change'. It seems to me they want to be there long enough so force will have to be used to remove them, because then that will look bad on the government. They seemed to apparently wait for something like a line of students or an old lady to get peppersprayed, so they can stand up, throw their arms in the air and scream cruelty.

When I refer to "They", I don't mean the people in New York at Occupy Wallstreet. I mean everyone else. The 19 - late20somethings who are lazy douches who want to feel like they're a part of their own personal 60's flower power revolution. It's a fucking joke.

Bond · 11-23-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoid

The thing is, I don't believe these occupy wallstreet douches want 'change'. It seems to me they want to be there long enough so force will have to be used to remove them, because then that will look bad on the government. They seemed to apparently wait for something like a line of students or an old lady to get peppersprayed, so they can stand up, throw their arms in the air and scream cruelty.

I don't think this is actually that far from the truth. Earlier this year I was in Madison for the union protests over the collective bargaining bill (this probably didn't receive media attention in Canada, but it was all over the local and national news here). Anyway, the protests peaked at around 100,000+ people per day, a fairly impressive number for a city with only 300,000 or so residents. But, observing the protests first-hand, it was fairly apparent to me that people get wrapped up in the "idea" of protesting, and often lose sight of the original cause. In other words, a lot of these protests just carry on because (1) it gives people something to do and allows them to live in a "fantasy world" for a period of time and (2) people enjoy the positive feedback loop you receive by protesting with like-minded citizens.