It's pretty much a done deal. Now it will be interesting how everything ends up after reconciliation. This could be a real procedural/political mess for a while...
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Re: House Passes Healthcare Bill
Lol... So Republicans say this bill has tax payers fund abortions, and Democrats say it doesn't. And as always, the media in their pursuit of being "fair and balanced" opposed to pursueing the "truth".. will not say who is lying and who is telling the truth.
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Re: House Passes Healthcare Bill
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Originally Posted by TheGame
Lol... So Republicans say this bill has tax payers fund abortions, and Democrats say it doesn't. And as always, the media in their pursuit of being "fair and balanced" opposed to pursueing the "truth".. will not say who is lying and who is telling the truth.
As fair as I figure, the bill that passed does support tax payers funded abortions, and that Pres Obama is expected to sign in an executive order to get rid of that clause, but could be mistaken.
As fair as I figure, the bill that passed does support tax payers funded abortions, and that Pres Obama is expected to sign in an executive order to get rid of that clause, but could be mistaken.
And there is a lot of debate as to whether or not that executive order will stand up. As far as I can tell, it won't. Executive orders can't supersede legislation. As soon as the executive order is challenged in court it will be overturned.
The was a scheme to allow the anti-abortion dems to vote for the bill and when it the order is overturned, they can blame the courts. Excellent gamesmanship. Lousy governing, but excellent gamesmanship.
So how much must the government borrow to pay for reform? That's the true measure of future deficits. Let's start with the CBO's "deficit reduction" estimate of $118 billion.
First, we'll subtract the Doc Fix of $371 billion, which Obama does not pay for and must be borrowed. That wipes out all of the theoretical decline in the deficit and leaves a shortfall of $253 billion.
Then we'll subtract the tax revenues that are owed for entitlements, and therefore excluded from paying for the bill: $70 billion from the CLASS Act, $52 billion for Social Security, and $113 billion for Medicare. That subtotal: $235 billion.
So the full amount that must be borrowed by 2019 is $488 billion. (That's 39% of the total cost, composed of the $875 billion official estimate plus the Doc Fix of $371 billion, for a total of $1.25 trillion.) Add in interest, which is excluded from the official CBO cost, and the total amount approaches $600 billion. So the U.S. will need to borrow an additional $600 billion to pay for a new medical system -- one that won't be up and running until 2014.
Only by using the crazy math of health care can a bill both "lower deficits" and enormously raise debt. America's struggling households know what real deficit reduction looks like, and this isn't it. To top of page
This pretty much sums up everything Paul Ryan illustrated in the health care summit.
I still haven't found anyone who can refute the numbers he quotes. The only response I've heard is some nonsense about "But when the CBO says something you like, you love them!" That has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.
The authors of the health care bill know this thing can't pay for itself. Its not even close. So instead of doing the right thing and readdressing the issues to make a sustainable plan, they decided it would be better to save face, feed the CBO fantasy figures, and therefore have a chance to save their own asses in the fall elections (a dubious strategy, but the alternative of being soundly defeated is the greater of both evils).
This is a game to these people, and its a game that will likely add the better part of $1,000,000,000,000.00 to the national debt. Right now the only way to stop this debacle is in court. Several states' attorneys general have already combined forces to sue the federal government.
Well, saw this happening once the bill was passed yesterday:
"March 22 (Bloomberg) -- Twelve states plan to challenge the constitutionality of the health-care overhaul passed yesterday by the U.S. House, according to statements made today.
Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum said Florida, Texas and Pennsylvania are among 11 states that will sue “as soon as the president signs the bill,” claiming it places a burden on already cash-strapped states to pay for an expanded Medicaid program and build an exchange so individuals can find affordable insurance. Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli also said in a statement his state would sue on the similar grounds.
The states that say they will sue are Alabama, Florida, Michigan, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Washington."
For as long as the political fight took over the past year, the abbreviated review process on the health care legislation currently pending on President Obama’s desk is unquestionably going to result in some surprises — as happens with any piece of mashed-up legislation — both for the congressmen who voted for it and for the American people.
One such surprise is found on page 158 of the legislation, which appears to create a carveout for senior staff members in the leadership offices and on congressional committees, essentially exempting those senior Democrat staffers who wrote the bill from being forced to purchase health care plans in the same way as other Americans.
A major story during the course of the health care debate was whether members of Congress would commit to placing themselves in the same health care exchanges as average citizens, or whether they would hang on to their government plans — that’s why leadership chose to add this portion to the bill, serving as a guarantee that members would participate in the same health plans as the people. Here’s the relevant text:
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Re: House Passes Healthcare Bill
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Originally Posted by Bond
This is a great find from The New Ledger:
The link has the quoted relevant text if anyone is interested.
Politics are a dirty business, I'm almost certain all of us know that, so I don't see how that is any different.
Anyhow, I may have misspoken about the whole abortion in the Health Care bill business. I did a bit of research, and it seems like there is no clause in the bill that would actually have the gov't fund abortion.
The executive order would exist just as a safeguard to people. At least according to this
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Re: House Passes Healthcare Bill
Have states ever sued the federal government before for redirecting how tax dollars are spent? Or are they sueing because of the mandate? That just kinda sounds weird to me...
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Have states ever sued the federal government before for redirecting how tax dollars are spent? Or are they sueing because of the mandate? That just kinda sounds weird to me...
The twelve Republican attorney generals who did / will be filling suits on behalf of their respective states are calling into question the constitutionality of the bill, which has to do with the mandates that you mentioned. The issue is addressed in the article I posted a few posts up.
From what I understand the opponents of the bill will argue using the 10th amendment about state sovereignty and the constitutionality of mandating individuals buy health care (or any other product). Supporters will argue the commerce clause that allows the federal government to regulate interstate commerce.
House Passes Healthcare Bill
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