dude gets jailed for have manga child porn

[KillerGremlin]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...iled-6-months/

thoughts?

[Professor S]

He broke the law, plead guilty, and has been sentenced. Pretty cut and dry to me. On a side note, he sounds like a pretty sleazy guy.

[TheGame]

As strange as that fetish is, I don't know if it should be against the law. Obviously child porn should be, since a child is being harmed in the creation of the product.. but I think people should have the freedom to look at any drawings/animations/movies they want in the privacy of their home as long as it's not hurting anyone else..

[Typhoid]

To be fair to what I'm about to say, I didn't read the article.

It's a tough call.
I mean, it's not real child pornography. However that doesn't make it less disturbing or disgusting. But I don't think it's...jailtime worthy, really.

I mean, it would be the same - to a degree - of sticking a "They shake me" t-shirt on a kid. Do they shake the baby? Probably not, no. If you draw a picture of - let's say - a murder, that's not the same as committing a murder.

I don't know.
Anything to do with Child Porn is fucking disturbing, regardless.

[The Germanator]

This comment from the article generally sums up my views...

I’m not a huge fan of the manga myself, BUT
If no real humans (or animals) are involved in the creation of a work, then no one/nothing is harmed and thus no crime can possibly have been committed. It really is that simple. Elevating fictional characters to the status of real people in this manner is absolutely idiotic, no matter what manner they’re being portrayed in.

“I don’t like it!” or “It’s icky!” is no justification for charging someone with a crime, especially such a serious one and thus ruining their life and reputation for a VERY long time. This is an absolute heinous mockery of “justice” and an insult to real abuse victims (plus it’s hypocritical… I don’t see these people jumping on the producers/viewers of gore flicks like Hostel, Saw, The Hills Have Eyes, etc… and those are far more graphic and disgusting than any manga could hope to be.)

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by Professor S

He broke the law, plead guilty, and has been sentenced. Pretty cut and dry to me. On a side note, he sounds like a pretty sleazy guy.

Wow...

I think I'm finally beginning to understand you a bit more Prof.



As far as that goes...

The law is fucking dumb. Germy pretty much found the comment that summed it up.

I still don't understand our society most of the time as far as the child issue goes. The general solution is "Catch a predator, Send them to jail for x amount of time, release them and put them on a list that basically guarantees they will never work again"

Thus not only keeping them from being a productive member of society in some manner, but also not actually helping them towards rehabilitation at all. It's a vicious cycle, and hey the system usually fails to prevent those who violate the law from doing it again.

America the beautiful. The place where we'll spend 4 years investigating and convicting someone for beating off to cartoon kiddie porn. Yeah, real great place to be sometimes.

[Vampyr]

Well, the guy is obviously creepy and I would not want to hang out with him.

But this is a really stupid law. No real people were harmed - it's fiction. He should have the right to look at that if he wants to.

[Professor S]

There are two issues here that we need to avoid confusing:

1) Was a law broken?

2) Is the law just?

The answer to the first is obvious. Yes, a law was broken and the breaker of the law should be held accountable. If we are going to be a civil society we can't subjectively decide what laws we enforce and what laws are "stupid" and not enforce. If you don't like the law, work to change it, but expecting it to not be enforced is silly.

As for the law being just, I couldn't really say. I would have to see evidence of cartoon child porn and its relation to action. If there is evidence that it does increase the likelihood of a pederast violating a kid, the law is just. If not, then it is not just. Laws are meant to protect individuals. If this law does, in fact, protect the innocent I think it is just. If it does not protect anyone, then it is simply unnecessary censorship and the government should not be involved.

If I were to guess I would say that porn like that helps people with penchants for pedophilia deal with those feelings without touching kids, but I would only be guessing.

In any case, I'm not sure how my response garnered a "wow".

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

As for the law being just, I couldn't really say. I would have to see evidence of cartoon child porn and its relation to action. If there is evidence that it does increase the likelihood of a pederast violating a kid, the law is just. If

If a study was done that proved that watching violent movies/cartoons caused people to commit more acts of violence, do you think it would be just to throw people in jail for 6 months for watching something with violence in it?

[Bond]

This is a tricky one. The problem here is somewhat two-fold. 1) Do these people choose to be attracted to children? All current research points to this not being the case, just as the majority of people do not choose to be gay. 2) Do people have a choice whether or not to act on these desires that are against societal norms? All current research points to that, yes, while there is not a choice to be attracted to children, there is still a choice whether or not to act on those desires.

I'm not trying to defend those who engage in these acts, but I do think we need to recognize it is not an easy struggle.

[Typhoid]

On the topic of 'acting on it'; in a sense I don't see the problem with it if it's manga. Other than being ridiculously creepy and something you shouldn't do because it happens to be really disturbing - but they aren't harming real children. I mean, maybe if it was a painted picture of a portrait of a real kid, but if it's just some fake...image, who's being harmed?

Again, clearly not condoning - but...no real person (other than this guy) is harmed in this scenario.

Undeniably creepy, and socially unacceptable - but...not real people. Cartoons do terrible stuff all the time. I personally say it should be either all or nothing.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by Professor S

If we are going to be a civil society we can't subjectively decide what laws we enforce and what laws are "stupid" and not enforce. If you don't like the law, work to change it, but expecting it to not be enforced is silly.

This is what garnered the "WOW" you just hadn't said it.

too tired to really coherently type it out but laws are constantly bent an broken, and the fact that they are is constantly ignored depending on the law. There are lots of laws that are now completely ignored (I.E. did you know oral sex is illegal in like 15 states even in the privacy of your own home? I mean technically police could bust you up for doing it, but you don't ever see that happen).

Just because laws exist it doesn't mean you should follow them blindly because they exist. That's ignorant. If history has taught use anything sometimes the best way to change the law is to treat it as though it doesn't exist.

This guy with no record of child abuse and no further evidence of Kiddie porn got a raw deal because he enjoy looking at naked anime children. He lost a year of his life over something as silly as that. Hell maybe the cartoons were the only thing keeping him from actually molesting a kid, and when he gets released from prison he'll actually do it.



P.S. Fuck the Establishment. It should be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.

[Vampyr]

Even if there was a 100% correlation between people watching anime porn depicting kids having sex and them actually committing pedophilia, this law would still be unjust and wrong.

You can't punish someone because they might do something, someday. Probably. Maybe.

There are countries out there where every type of porn is illegal. Even if you don't watch porn, you do not want to live in those countries. It's important for us to protect everyone's rights to view fictional entertainment even if most people find it disturbing (professional wrestling, anyone?). Because one day they may come for what -you- enjoy.

But good luck fighting against this law - you'll be going up against the single most powerful phrase in politics: "It's to protect the children." People hear that and they are automatically for it, regardless of if it violates a person's rights or not.

But if I ever get the opportunity to sit on a jury where fiction is being treated as reality, I'll be sure to argue as hard as I can to see the person is declared innocent.

[Typhoid]

regardless of if it violates a person's rights or not.

It does violate someone's rights, to be fair. The guy who had the manga.


Me and Bond talked about this last night, and then I wondered:

"Are they going to try and arrest the people who drew the picture/video? If owning cartoon porn is bad, making it must be 10x worse."

[KillerGremlin]

I think the law itself is flawed.

Someone in the Digg thread where I found this story commented on how if this guy did not plead guilty and appealed the ruling he may have gotten off. The Supreme Court actually has ruled fairly favorably in cases like this.