BP Oil Spill

[TheGame]

I'm shocked there's not a topic about it already... but it's now being projected that 1.5+ million gallons of oil is spilling per day. Do you think the government is doing the right thing by allowing BP to try to block and clean up the spill?

[Typhoid]

I'll start by saying this:

What has happened is terrible. It's a mistake we as people have made, and clearly should not have made. There should have been things in place to prevent this from happening.


However, oil leaks into the ocean constantly, naturally. It always has, and it always will. At large volumes, I might add. The ocean is massive. To even try contemplate the size of all of the water in the oceans combined is nearly impossible.

In the long run, everything will be 100% okay. Entirely, and completely.


In the short run, animals in the local area will die, and plant life will suffer. That is the risk of oil drilling. This is a known risk, and this is an accepted risk, or else oil drilling would not occur. If you play with fire, you will get burned, eventually.


I think the spill should obviously stop. Really, there is no way to safely do it, though. The pressure inside of the deposit spilling out into the water is massive, and I'd honestly be impressed if they manage to 'plug' it in any way. Hell, even if they can 'contain' it, I'll be impressed.

I do think the cost, and fault should lie 100% with BP. They were the company who owned it, it's their line, it's their oil, it's their fault. Simple.

But I do think that this oil leak will go on for a long time. I do hope I'm wrong, because it would be a horrible waste of oil, however.

[Vampyr]

I think it's obvious that BP should pay for the spill.

I also think they should be indebted to all the local businesses that have suffered due to the spill.

[Professor S]

BP should pay for the spill and the impact the the economy of the gulf region, and regardless of government intervention, they would anyway. That is what our legal system is for. Honestly, the federal government has no place coaxing money from BP, regardless of populist outrage. Sue them or don't sue them, but to constantly threaten to bludgeon is shady political dealing at its best.

The management of the spill has been utterly disastrous. The fact BP is still running this show and handling 90% of the clean-up is amazing to me. Why haven't we accepted other country's offers to help with this? Why aren't other oil companies involved with their resources in the region (to be compensated by BP, of course)? The management of this crisis has been shockingly un-crisis like. Say what you will about how Bush responded to Katrina, but it was days before every tool at our country's disposal was activated to aid in the aftermath, not months.

Oil drilling should NOT be stopped, but instead the industry should learn from this accident. If we stopped everything of value because there was a catastrophe, humans would still be painting on rock walls.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Professor S

BP should pay for the spill and the impact the the economy of the gulf region, and regardless of government intervention, they would anyway. That is what our legal system is for. Honestly, the federal government has no place coaxing money from BP, regardless of populist outrage. Sue them or don't sue them, but to constantly threaten to bludgeon is shady political dealing at its best.

First off, when exactly did they coax money out of BP? Please answer that. The only thing I know about is giving the federal gov't giving BP a bill for what the government has done so far, and asking BP to set aside $20 billion to pay for future claims. To be clear, that is money set aside for future claims, not going directly to any government coffers. Is that big evil government, trying to get some assurance that the good angel of a private industry company will pay for the disaster it wrought upon all of us?

And secondly, would BP pay anyway? Really? Do you think they're just itching to pay for all the problems they caused? You don't think BP's not interested in paying as little as possible, and wouldn't much rather keep this whole thing mum and out of the media so everyone can forget about it? I think it's perfectly ok for the government to use its influence to put pressure on a company that just wreaked an interstate disaster to the environment and economy across four Gulf states and beyond. It's not like they're pressuring some McDonald's in Bumfuck, Ohio to make sure they pay up for spilling some oil behind their restaurant. The more pressure the better, so BP can't just dust all of this under the rug nearly as easily.

Honestly, BP creates an interstate disaster, and people get pissed at the government for actually doing something against that company. The thought process is astounding to me.

The management of the spill has been utterly disastrous. The fact BP is still running this show and handling 90% of the clean-up is amazing to me. Why haven't we accepted other country's offers to help with this? Why aren't other oil companies involved with their resources in the region (to be compensated by BP, of course)? The management of this crisis has been shockingly un-crisis like. Say what you will about how Bush responded to Katrina, but it was days before every tool at our country's disposal was activated to aid in the aftermath, not months.

And here, in the very next paragraph, you want the federal government to do more! (And, I presume the feds should do all that and just sue for it later?)

Some of this is factually wrong. All I've heard from day one is that other oil companies have been involved. I haven't heard about other countries trying to help, so don't know about that. And the Bush comparison sounds like more political blustering to me. How exactly do you quantify "every tool at our country's disposal"?

Oil drilling should NOT be stopped, but instead the industry should learn from this accident. If we stopped everything of value because there was a catastrophe, humans would still be painting on rock walls.

It shouldn't be stopped, but to me it's another wake-up-call to what an oil hungry populace such as ourselves does to pollute the earth.

And Typhoid, I wonder if you'd be so blase about the spill if it was off the coast of Vancouver.

[TheGame]

And here, in the very next paragraph, you want the federal government to do more! (And, I presume the feds should do all that and just sue for it later?)

Strangler subscribes to the republican idealism almost 100%.. There is no reason for any dem to pursue his vote because there's no action that can be taken (or not taken) by the government that would make him happy. His last post is a perfect illistration of that.

BP is just a big corperation who is trying to make money. I don't expect them to bleed a dime to the government or to the country out of the kindness of their hearts. Heck, I wouldn't be shocked if they're first priority is to save as much oil as they can from this spill, and their second priority is to stop it. I mean, that's what big companies do, try to make money. (And there's nothing wrong with that, but the Govt needs to set regulations that make companies think twice before causing a disaster like this)

[Bond]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Do you think the government is doing the right thing by allowing BP to try to block and clean up the spill?

It seems to me like you might be framing this question somewhat inappropriately. The government isn't really "allowing" BP to clean up the spill... even without government pressure, it is quite likely BP would be devoting the same amount and quality of resources to clean up the spill. It is in their best interest to do this. Now, when we begin to talk about BP paying for indirect damages from the spill (such as a fisherman's lost wages) this becomes a different story.

There is a little known law (akin to the Price-Anderson Act for nuclear power plants), whose name I now forget that essentially caps the amount that oil companies are liable for indirect damages in the event of an oil spill from deep-sea drilling. It is a federal law (as is Price-Anderson), and has a similar intent: to encourage companies to drill for oil off-shore. Why does the government do this? Because no company wants to potentially incur infinite indirect liability in the event of a catastrophe (i.e. this oil spill) - and we need oil.

My point in bringing up this somewhat obscure law is that the federal government and BP are both somewhat culpable in this whole mess. Did BP cut corners? Probably. Was BP encouraged by the federal government to pursue such extreme measures to drill for oil with the backing of capped indirect liability? Certainly.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by manasecret

First off, when exactly did they coax money out of BP? Please answer that. The only thing I know about is giving the federal gov't giving BP a bill for what the government has done so far, and asking BP to set aside $20 billion to pay for future claims. To be clear, that is money set aside for future claims, not going directly to any government coffers. Is that big evil government, trying to get some assurance that the good angel of a private industry company will pay for the disaster it wrought upon all of us?

I never said it was evil, I said government has no place doing it, and essentially using the threat of government investigations to do so. I also never said BP was an angel. What I said was that the legal system is set up to sort these things out through civil actions. It is not the federal government's place to extort a private company to pay out billions. It is the place of the court system to decide settlements.

And secondly, would BP pay anyway? Really? Do you think they're just itching to pay for all the problems they caused? You don't think BP's not interested in paying as little as possible, and wouldn't much rather keep this whole thing mum and out of the media so everyone can forget about it?

1) To be fair, BP was paying out money before the gov ever got involved

2) They would have always paid through the nose, because there would be about 800,000 civil suits filed against them. Do you think they would get away without paying them? Hardly.

I think it's perfectly ok for the government to use its influence to put pressure on a company that just wreaked an interstate disaster to the environment and economy across four Gulf states and beyond. It's not like they're pressuring some McDonald's in Bumfuck, Ohio to make sure they pay up for spilling some oil behind their restaurant. The more pressure the better, so BP can't just dust all of this under the rug nearly as easily.

Ok, well then you don't believe in a constitutional separation of powers. Glad we could clarify the situation.

Honestly, BP creates an interstate disaster, and people get pissed at the government for actually doing something against that company. The thought process is astounding to me.

So we can get angry at BP for breaking the rules when it comes to oil extraction, but we can't be concerned about the government breaking its own rules in response? Why am I only allowed to be unhappy with one of the two parties involved?

And here, in the very next paragraph, you want the federal government to do more! (And, I presume the feds should do all that and just sue for it later?)

I want the government to do the job of the government, which is leadership and organization in the face of crisis. They have failed to do so. My main concern is that they've purposely failed to take the reins because they would rather have someone to blame for the disaster than take control and risk even more fault in the eyes of potential voters.

If they spill had taken place in waters closer to shore, I would have thought states would be more in control, but the distance and location of the spill rules out their ability to handle it.

Some of this is factually wrong. All I've heard from day one is that other oil companies have been involved.

I know they have been involved in round-table discussions, but I am unaware of any resources that have been spent to help clean. Mainly I am pissed that BP was in control of the clean-up for so long. Our shores are not BP properties or resources.

Also, I believe some of the clean-up should have been made available to private industry outside of that organized by BP. Private industry tends to be FAR more agile than government control. You put a price of $0.50 a gallon of oil skimmed from the water and you would see an armada of rednecks in canoes with wet-dry vacs in the middle of the gulf sucking up sludge.

I haven't heard about other countries trying to help, so don't know about that. And the Bush comparison sounds like more political blustering to me. How exactly do you quantify "every tool at our country's disposal"?

1) 22 countries have offered assistance. At a price, true, but ok... seriously... pay it and sue BP to be reimbursed if need be. You'll win.

http://calamities.gaeatimes.com/2010...erosity-31116/

2) For one example the president can temporarily repeal the Jones Act allowing foreign ships in American waters, presumably to help with the spill. Bushed temporarily repealed the act within days of Katrina.

It shouldn't be stopped, but to me it's another wake-up-call to what an oil hungry populace such as ourselves does to pollute the earth.

Point taken. I'd love to be off oil myself, but it is a hard reality right now, and so far there isn't a real replacement. In the mean time we obviously need to develop safer methods of extraction.

[Professor S]

And Bond makes a very important point: Why was BP out so far, drilling so deep in the first place? The government wouldn't let them drill in shallower, safer waters. Why to they have a damages cap? They needed to give industry a reason to take the added risk of drilling so deep and far from shore.

It's a giant cluster-fuck of terrible choices made by both government and private industry.

[Angrist]

Originally Posted by The Germanator

...

YOU!

(Yes I follow the Spinto Band on Twitter.)

[Typhoid]

I really hope this thread subtly changes into a conversation about how great Germy and the Germanators are.

[TheGame]

I'm confused.. oh well...

[The Germanator]

Originally Posted by Angrist

YOU!

(Yes I follow the Spinto Band on Twitter.)

Haha. Damn that photo editor for using that picture that was taken two years ago...

I can also explain that the shirt is from a friend's band called "The Bullet Parade". They decided it was a good idea to kind of riff on the BP logo for their t-shirt design. Doesn't seem like such a great idea now. Won't be bringing that one on tour anymore.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Don't know if you guys saw today, but they removed the cap that was capturing the oil, so now it's free flow babay yeah!

/Austin Powers

[Typhoid]

I lost my phone a few days ago, and someone just gave it back to me.
That was awfully nice of her.