Hurricane Katrina

[Krypton]

I feel depressed when I see this stuff on the news, seeing what all those people had to go through, I especially feel bad for the elderly and the ill ones, being there is no power, and its hard to get supplies. I would like to see what New Orleans looks like after this is all over.

[Jonbo298]

Yeah, I wanna see the images of N O after the water is finally drained just to see how bad the devastation truly is. Right now its mostly covered by water (obviously )

But another thing that concerns me is that it seems like they ordered the mandatory evacuations too late and people probably underestimated how devastating it could be.

If it was made widely public that this hurricane will put New Orleans underwater and was shouted throughout city to everyone, I suspect more would have left

[The Germanator]

Here are Kanye West's thoughts on the whole matter, highlighted by the quote "George Bush doesn't care about Black people."

http://media.putfile.com/Kanye79

[Acebot44]

+ Rep to Kanye

[DeathsHand]

- rep to Kanye in my book...

Seems like anytime black people are involved in any sort of negative situation, the subject of race always pops up... Which really I find more disturbing and (dare I say) racist than any possible (yet very unlikely) racial motivation that was supposidly there to begin with...

"George Bush doesn't care about black people"... I guess he doesn't care about the white, latino, or asian people down there either then...

Fun Fact: As of the 2000 census, African Americans accounted for 67.25% of the population of New Orleans... This would explain why a majority of the people shown on the news are black...

So did help arrive later than it should have? Probably... But I'd like for someone to try and show us one single drop of hard evidence that this lack of initial effort was due to a majority of the population being black... Or that Bush 'Doesn't care about black people'...

I don't even really like Bush, but I'm sorry, the whole race issue is just silly...

[Jonbo298]

Exactly what I'm thinking DH. Kanye is good to speak out but the choice of words could have been better

[Bond]

Kanye West is such a Golddigger...

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Jonbo298

Yeah, I wanna see the images of N O after the water is finally drained just to see how bad the devastation truly is. Right now its mostly covered by water (obviously )

But another thing that concerns me is that it seems like they ordered the mandatory evacuations too late and people probably underestimated how devastating it could be.

If it was made widely public that this hurricane will put New Orleans underwater and was shouted throughout city to everyone, I suspect more would have left

It was made widely public that this hurricane would destroy New Orleans. I knew it from here in Houston, and they definitely knew it there in Nola. The governer or mayor of some town in Mississippi said he was "scared to death" by Katrina a day or two before the storm. If that isn't enough to get someone out, there's not much else to do.

I think they did everything they could to tell people to leave Nola, barring going from street to street and house to house forcing people to leave which is a logistical impossibility with the day and a half they had. And it sounds good to say that they should have ordered the mandatory evacuation earlier, but it wasn't certain that it would hit Nola EVEN at the time of when they ordered the evacuation.

I've only lived in New Orleans about three years now, but I've already been through four or five hurricane scares. Every year I've been there New Orleans has ordered an evacuation (sometimes two evacuations), and it always turned out to be nothing. It becomes a joke, a fun time and a holiday. Now imagine living there thirty years and going through that every year--you stop caring. Obviously many people weren't so ignorant, but there are always gonna be some who ride it out.

About the race issue, I think it's not a race issue. I agree with DeathsHand. I however DO think it's a valid TOPIC to bring up, I mean you'd have to put your blinders on to not notice that the evacuees that were stuck were mostly black and mostly poor. But I completely disagree that it's a race issue. The mayor of New Orleans is black--what about him? Isn't he largely responsible for New Orleans? Or is he racist, too? And remember, this is one of THE worst disasters EVER to occur in the U.S. This was no one's fault but Katrina herself.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by manasecret

And remember, this is one of THE worst disasters EVER to occur in the U.S. This was no one's fault but Katrina herself.

That's all very well and nice except for a minor little detail: nobody is blaming anybody for Hurricane Katrina. Not even the angry black people crying racism in New Orleans are blaming Bush for the hurricane. They blame him for the response.

People already knew that the estimated death toll if the levees failed would have eclipsed 9/11. So why did Bush wait an extra few days before getting back to D.C.? Why was Condoleeza Rice shopping on her New York vacation until somebody literally screamed "What the hell are you doing?" How did the head of FEMA somehow manage to tell reporters that he wasn't aware of refugees in the Superdome even though footage of people dying in there had been playing on TV the entire day? Why were reporters with TV cameras able to drive right into the disaster area days before any National Guard showed up?

I'm not saying that I necessarily blame anybody, but these are valid questions that will need to be answered when the disaster is over.

As for the racism issue, I don't know how much of a leg they have to stand on. However, it is valid to question whether the response would have been much faster if 90% of the people stuck behind had been white instead of black. You can't honestly tell me that your reaction to news footage would have been exactly the same if every miserable face you had seen had been white.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by Xantar

You can't honestly tell me that your reaction to news footage would have been exactly the same if every miserable face you had seen had been white.

mmmm yeah mine probably would have been the same... And you can't honestly say that it wouldn't have... honestly...

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Xantar

That's all very well and nice except for a minor little detail: nobody is blaming anybody for Hurricane Katrina. Not even the angry black people crying racism in New Orleans are blaming Bush for the hurricane. They blame him for the response.

People already knew that the estimated death toll if the levees failed would have eclipsed 9/11. So why did Bush wait an extra few days before getting back to D.C.? Why was Condoleeza Rice shopping on her New York vacation until somebody literally screamed "What the hell are you doing?" How did the head of FEMA somehow manage to tell reporters that he wasn't aware of refugees in the Superdome even though footage of people dying in there had been playing on TV the entire day? Why were reporters with TV cameras able to drive right into the disaster area days before any National Guard showed up?

I'm not saying that I necessarily blame anybody, but these are valid questions that will need to be answered when the disaster is over.

As for the racism issue, I don't know how much of a leg they have to stand on. However, it is valid to question whether the response would have been much faster if 90% of the people stuck behind had been white instead of black. You can't honestly tell me that your reaction to news footage would have been exactly the same if every miserable face you had seen had been white.

You're absolutely right, these questions do need to be asked. Just like the racism question should be asked.

It's just that all I hear is people pointing fingers on the news now. While I think it's right to ask questions, I think it's also right to sit back for a moment and remember that this is a major disaster, and you cannot prepare for everything that will be needed in a disaster like you can with hindsight. It's a disaster, that's the nature of it.

Also remember that the day after Katrina hit, EVERYONE thought New Orleans had just barely avoided the disaster. "Big Easy Breathes Big Sigh of Relief" is only one actual headline of many on Tuesday the day after. On Tuesday Mississippi was by far the worst off. So you have to imagine the gov't thinking, hey, New Orleans is fine let's go help Mississippi. Then by the time they realize Nola needs help, they're moving towards Miss. and the streets in Nola are completely flooded making it difficult to get help in and power and water are down and the levee breaks and it becomes a big and now a surprise disaster. I've already made all these points, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

I think people dying on the streets like this is unacceptable. But the vast majority did make it out of New Orleans safe, and now Americans are being extremely generous to help them in any way possible. Let's hope Katrina is a lesson learned for the gov't, and I think asking questions about the response will help make sure of that.

And like DeathsHand, yeah, maybe you can't but I can honestly say it would be the same response for me. Thank you for not assuming others are racist.

[Typhoid]

I'm not sure how true this is, because I didn't watch the news story on it, I just heard that it was IN the news...



But Vancouver resuce teams were sent down there, and then they were sent back because someone in New Orleans said they "werent needed".


If you have rioting, mass evacuations, dead people in the streets, shouldnt you accept all the help you can have? Why send people back?

**** that, bring more people in. Have an army of rescue people helping.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I'm not sure how true this is, because I didn't watch the news story on it, I just heard that it was IN the news...



But Vancouver resuce teams were sent down there, and then they were sent back because someone in New Orleans said they "werent needed".


If you have rioting, mass evacuations, dead people in the streets, shouldnt you accept all the help you can have? Why send people back?

**** that, bring more people in. Have an army of rescue people helping.

I read that they saved like 30 people...

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by manasecret

It's just that all I hear is people pointing fingers on the news now. While I think it's right to ask questions, I think it's also right to sit back for a moment and remember that this is a major disaster, and you cannot prepare for everything that will be needed in a disaster like you can with hindsight. It's a disaster, that's the nature of it.

...

I think people dying on the streets like this is unacceptable. But the vast majority did make it out of New Orleans safe, and now Americans are being extremely generous to help them in any way possible. Let's hope Katrina is a lesson learned for the gov't, and I think asking questions about the response will help make sure of that.

So what exactly do you want? I'm confused. On the one hand, you're saying that it's a disaster and it couldn't have been totally prepared for and that's the nature of the beast. On the other hand, you're saying the deaths are unacceptable and that you hope the government learns a lesson. What would you have us do exactly? What do you expect to happen after all the questions are asked? How is the government going to learn a lesson unless somebody is held accountable? It seems to me that you would like the government to sit down and collectively say, "Sorry. We messed that one up. We'll do better next time." The only other way I can interpret your post is that you are trying to double talk by saying that we should "ask questions" but also realize that this is a natural disaster, as if that means that nobody screwed up and got thousands of humans killed. I'd rather not assume the worst about your post, though. Everybody knows this was an act of nature. I don't understand why you keep trying to insist on that point as if it makes any difference.

It seems to me that you are somehow offended by blame being cast. Sorry, but when somebody screws up, he or she has to be made responsible for it. And in this case, there is no doubt that somebody did screw up. Politicians are now busily trying to throw the blame away from themselves, and that's bad. But that doesn't mean every finger pointed is wrong. A lot of people have died unnecessarily. That is beyond doubt. You can say that nobody could have been prepared for this situation and recite more excuses all you want, but the fact of the matter is we pay a lot of good money for our government to be prepared for every contingency. We ought to demand the very best preparation, planning and organization possible, and I find it hard to believe that this was present with Hurricane Katrina, particularly with an Arabian horse trader running FEMA. This is the government that says it has plans to take care of us (or at least minimalize casualties) in case of a catastrophic biological attack.

But Hurricane Katrina was an act of nature. It wasn't forecast far enough ahead of time to get every last person out of the city. It was a bit unpredictable.

Ok, fine. Now what?

Originally Posted by manasecret

And like DeathsHand, yeah, maybe you can't but I can honestly say it would be the same response for me. Thank you for not assuming others are racist.

Question: my mom is an Asian woman. Do you think she's taller than you or shorter than you? Do you think she speaks English perfectly? Do you think she's more likely to be an actress by profession or a doctor? Do you think she was an avid surfer in her youth?

Everybody notices race (except maybe the blind). I could even pull studies to show that if you wanted. The first thing anybody notices about somebody else is their ethnic background (or what they think it is). When shown portraits and asked to pick words or describe feelings, people choose differently depending on the race of the person they see in the portrait and for no other reason. It just seems hard-wired into us. I choose to acknowledge the fact that I do this and deal with it honestly. Frankly, I think anybody who pretends they are totally colorblind is just in denial.

I'm not saying that we all saw black people in New Orleans and immediately thought, "Oh, well they're black so they don't matter." I'm not saying that any of us care less just because the faces we see are of a certain color. I'm not even saying that any of us literate, middle-class, relatively well-educated people talking here on this message board would react less urgently if we had seen white people dying in the streets. But deep down, something does register differently, and it's fair to ask whether that really does affect the national response because really, we aren't going to know unless a few thousand white people really do get killed in a natural disaster. It's been proven, unfortunately. And even if you think you really are so enlightened and better than all the random subjects in studies, how confident are you that every single government official involved in the relief effort is the same way?

I say let's just be honest. We all make stereotypes. It's our brain's way of working with incomplete information, and psychologists actually think that for the most part, we wouldn't function very well without it. All the same, trying to deny what's going on in our heads isn't going to help anything. I'll bet you've been resisting this whole line of argument the entire time, but here's the question you should be asking yourself: is that absolutely, completely because you think I'm spouting a load of hogwash or is it because if it really is true, you wouldn't feel so good about yourself?

Originally Posted by Indigo Montoya

If you were walking down the street at night and saw a group of young black males dressed in hip-hop (man, I feel white just saying that) clothing, would you get nervous? Now, put them in Armani suits. See my point?

Now make them white peolpe dressed in hip hop clothing. Do you feel just as nervous about them?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Xantar

Now make them white peolpe dressed in hip hop clothing. Do you feel just as nervous about them?

Late at night, in the same situation? Hell yes, Mr. Fatty McManboobs (since you refuse to all me by my name, I'll be calling you anything I want from here on out. This should be fun. ).