Michael Moore Hates America Review

KillerGremlin · 01-09-2006, 05:48 PM

I enjoy Moore, as the comedian that he is.

There's really no such thing as a "real" documentary, at least not when there is a voice. I've seen movies that are just comprised of video footage of the war in Iraq, or of poor areas in cities, and videos like that touch you. But even those can be one-sided.

If you walk into Moore's movies with a sense of humor, I think you will find them quite enjoyable.

I may well end up seeing this film. Not because I hate Moore, or because I like him, but because I enjoy watching movies like this.

Jason1 · 01-09-2006, 08:40 PM

I like Michael Moore, so Im guessing I wouldnt like this film.

Professor S · 01-09-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason1

I like Michael Moore, so Im guessing I wouldnt like this film.

Well, as my review stated, its more than just a Michael Moore bash. Its takes all documentaries to task, including itself. It shows the arrogance in stating that anything can be considered "truth" when it is filtered through an editing and directing process.

Penn Gillette has a great intreview where he states that all documentaries become a lie once the camera is turned on, as one man with his own pre-disposed beliefs and bias' is controlling what is being filmed. The question is, how much of a lie are you willing to tell?

Also, liking Michael Moore shouldn't prevent you from watching a film that criticizes him, as he is far from beyond criticism. I have watched almost all of Moore's films, and I think he is a horrific individual with a severe narcissistic personality disorder. I don't like what he does, but I recognize that he is brilliant at it. This film kind of takes that position. Its about the loss of public discourse and how the polarization created by people like Moore has ground the market of ideas to a halt. Besides, how dedicated to your personal political and social beliefs can you be if you won't watch anything that contradicts them? If you can watch the criticism without automatically dismissing it, and it survives an internal debate of reason with the critic's points, then you know you truly believe in your ideals and they aren't just lies that you have carefully protected.

You can be a Moore fan, and still enjoy this movie. You might just stop liking him if you see it, and that might be more frightening than anything to the true believers. But this takes the documentary to task more that Moore. Wilson just uses Moore as his main example of the bad documentary, which he should.

On a side note, I'm still shocked by the amount of people who still love Moore's films even though it has been proven that he misleads his audience at every turn, which is basically a HUGE insult to their intelligence. I'll never understand the "ends justify the means" argument of many modern "muchraking" journalists or their followers.

Dylflon · 01-10-2006, 01:13 AM

I like Mike as well.

It's good that this film maker highlights his own biases.

Because even the title (Michael Moore Hates America) drips with bias.

Professor S · 01-10-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylflon

Because even the title (Michael Moore Hates America) drips with bias.

Its meant to be ironic. And for dripping bias... well just look at the titles of Moore's books and you'll see an ocean of it. Yet they don't prevent anyone from reading them.

Dylflon · 01-10-2006, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor S

Its meant to be ironic. And for dripping bias... well just look at the titles of Moore's books and you'll see an ocean of it. Yet they don't prevent anyone from reading them.

Stupid White Men is a fairly biased title, yes.

KillerGremlin · 01-10-2006, 04:55 PM

I propose a new medium of entertainment:

Titles that aren't catchy.
Jokes that don't affend.
Soda with no flavor.

Jason1 · 01-10-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor S

I have watched almost all of Moore's films, and I think he is a horrific individual with a severe narcissistic personality disorder. I don't like what he does, but I recognize that he is brilliant at it.

You just dont like him because he tells the truth.

Dylflon · 01-10-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason1

You just dont like him because he tells the truth.

Typhoid · 01-10-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

In fact, after seeing how The Daily Show treated the director it only proved that no one on the show saw his movie,

I would just like to take this time to point out that the Daily Show isn't news, but is a comedy show.

Jon Stweart himself, even says that his show is fake, made up news.

So he wouldnt HAVE to see it to do a report on it.

Dylflon · 01-10-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I would just like to take this time to point out that the Daily Show isn't news, but is a comedy show.

Jon Stweart himself, even says that his show is fake, made up news.

So he wouldnt HAVE to see it to do a report on it.

The news is real.

They just play with it and twist it around.

Professor S · 01-11-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I would just like to take this time to point out that the Daily Show isn't news, but is a comedy show.

Jon Stweart himself, even says that his show is fake, made up news.

So he wouldnt HAVE to see it to do a report on it.

I won't talk about the Moore movie anymore, but I find the excuse that The Daily Show is a comedy act to be exactly that, an excuse.

The Daily Show does more than simply do comedy, just like Lenny Bruce did more that do stand-up. Stewart is an opinion maker, and he believes his own press.

1) Count the number of laughs that the show gets compared the the rounds of applause. Applause doesn't indicate comedy, but rather agreement with an OPINION. If I was still in college, I would do a media analysis of his shows to see how this trend has progressed.

2) Know who else guises his agenda in comedy? Michael Moore. When he's around those that think like him, he's a muck raking journalist. When he is challenged, he suddenly is just a comedian.

3) For someone who says its all a joke, Stewart sure does like to take himself incredibly seriously. His appearance on CNN's Crossfire is a perfect example of this. While he is a comedian, he did enough damage to the show to have it cancelled by just saying that it was a bad show and blind-siding that poor bow-tied idiot Tucker Carlson. That doesn;t sound like a funny joke to me. It sounds like someone who wields an enormous amount of political power and influence over public opinion.

4) The Daily Show manipulates the news. They show clips severely out of context to form a joke with an agenda, and also tend to do so to one specific poltical party over the other. Yes, the democrats are crtiticized from time to time, but it is rare. They don't just manipulate the news for jokes, they attempt to re-write it for them, and they send messages to the polulace that reinforces ignorant opinion.

The bottom line is that The Daily Show is a comedy with an aganda, and they excuse that agends through their comedy. Its the best of both worlds. They can say whatever they want and take no responsibility for the fatc that intended or not, people take the themes and tone of their jokes seriously. Through the mask of humor, Jon Stewart and his crew can excuse themselves from any form of social and yes, even journalistic, responsibility.

That said, I still watch the show and find it hilarious when its not being overtly biased or stretching the truth.

And Bluefire, was this what you were talking about?