The Problem of Evil

[Typhoid]

I just want to ask this, since there are religious people posting.
And I've never got a straight answer to this - and I don't mean it sarcastically, or trying to cut down religion- and I just want to read/hear someone's standpoint who religiously believes in the western culture's version of God.


So, if we're all created in God's image, why are there Black people, Asian people and Hispanics? If God is relatively white, and we're in his image, why are there other people? And hell, if God's something else, why are we white?

And why does God allow other religions to exist? And if he allows them to exist, why does he care what we believe in, and tell us we'll go to hell if we use our own free will? If we have the free will to believe in whatever we want, why does he want to put limitations on our free will, and say "Well, you can do what you want, but as long as what you want is within what I say."

The one fault I have with religious people, is that whenever they encounter something they can't respond to, they say "The Bible says so" or something to that matter.

Remember when the world was flat, and earth was the centre of the Universe?

Anyways.

This reminds me of a joke, I'll post.

"Catholicism views homosexuality as a crime. It's bad. It's unnatural. You know what's unnatural to me? Zombies. And I seem to recall a certain easter Zombie somewhere. You get on your knees, drink the blood, and eat the body of Christ? Just so he has enough time to sneak up behind you and eat your brain? But not the whole thing. Just the part that controls independent thought."

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

The one fault I have with religious people, is that whenever they encounter something they can't respond to, they say "The Bible says so" or something to that matter.

Yeah... that's what I've been trying to avoid in this discussion, those kind of easy out answers that don't really state anything.

I'll answer your question from the Catholic church's point of view if no one else responds.

[TheGame]

Like I said, I'm not going to preach to you. Everything I've said dealt with the general idea of god.. Only specifics for some religons. I'm not trying to convert anyone, if you really want the answer read about it.. Suffering existing doesn't mean god doesn't exist according to my beliefs and many other's who may or may not believe the same exact thing as I do.

As for typhoid's question, I already answered it in an earlier post:

The general consent from christians is that god created men with free will, just because he wanted men to chose him themselves. Of course, men would frown upon this idea, but that's what's believed to be true generally.

If he wanted mindless slaves who had no choice but to follow him and who had no will to do evil or suffer whatsoever.. well, we wouldn't be haivng this conversation. :P Maybe he felt that having people chose to follow him was better than enforcing the will on people to follow him.

He gave man the free will to do whatever they wanted, but he WANTS them to chose him. Just like if you have a kid, you didn't have them with the idea in mind to be your slave, yet you WANT them to do what you feel is right, and you WANT them to love you. But you can't FORCE them to do anything, which makes them being a good person and loving you more valid, right?

Free will is a bitch like that. This is why I say one can view him as good or bad or whatever they want, because its their will to do so.

"But that doesn't make sense! Why allow suffering, why give us the option!"

Maybe he did it for kicks, maybe he did it to make his ego bigger. Who knows? He's god, he's not meant to be your friend, he's not meant to hold your hand, he's meant to be your ruler, your king, and your father. He doesn't like people going against him, oh well.. he created us that way..

And I think the creation in his image is not based off of LOOKS alone. Its more based off of what he is.. A being with the ability to make choices himself.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by TheGame

He gave man the free will to do whatever they wanted, but he WANTS them to chose him. Just like if you have a kid, you didn't have them with the idea in mind to be your slave, yet you WANT them to do what you feel is right, and you WANT them to love you. But you can't FORCE them to do anything, which makes them being a good person and loving you more valid, right?

But they're still my kid, so I'd love them nonetheless.
I wouldn't say "You don't respect me, so I'm going to set you on fire for the rest of eternity."

And Strangler:

You do not understand religion or more specifically, faith, so why would understand that answer?

Who said I don't understand faith?
I just said I wasn't Catholic, or believed in any western religion.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

But they're still my kid, so I'd love them nonetheless.
I wouldn't say "You don't respect me, so I'm going to set you on fire for the rest of eternity."

Of course you would still love your kid, no matter how disrespectful/evil he/she grows up to be you'd give them chance after chance after chance to redeem themselves. And that's exactly what god does.

Every day you wake up you're offered the oppertunity to go out and read the bible, or go to church. And you're offered the oppertunity to repent. If you ignore this oppertunity your whole life, and you die and go to hell.. you can never EVER say that he didn't give you a chance. All you could say is that you didn't chose to accept it, and you got what was coming to you.

God offers a hand, but you chose to ignore it or reject it.

And yes, god created satan and hell. There's MANY examples in the bible of him being angered by people who disrespect him and immorality. But that's the thing, he's god... you aren't. He has the right to make such decisions if you agree or disagree with it.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by TheGame

And yes, god created satan and hell. There's MANY examples in the bible of him being angered by people who disrespect him and immorality. But that's the thing, he's god... you aren't. He has the right to make such decisions if you agree or disagree with it.

Speaking of hell and Satan... they've gone through an interesting transformation over the years. It seems to me as though hell kind of started out as a bargaining tool for peasants to fight for their king, and if they disobeyed they were going to hell. We've now moved away from that thought to a kinder and gentler hell. My prediction is that soon Christianity will move away completely from the concept of hell. The same goes for Satan. More and more modern Christians are moving away from the idea of Satan and that Lucifer became Satan. It's natural for a religion's interpretation of the world around it to change overtime.

But in any case, the best defense for the existence of Satan I have read is C.S. Lewis's The Screwtape Letters.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Who said I don't understand faith?
I just said I wasn't Catholic, or believed in any western religion.

Once again, I was not speaking personally, but instead putting out arguments you would hear from a religious person (western). To a highly religious person, your questions/challenges would show a basic lack of understanding of their veiw on faith and Christian religion. Thats all I was saying.

I wrote a lot more than that, is there anything else you'd like to comment on?

[Professor S]

These are not nedcessrily my beliefs, but are instead what I believe to be legitimate religious/philosphical responses to Typhoid's comments.

Originally Posted by Typhoid

So, if we're all created in God's image, why are there Black people, Asian people and Hispanics? If God is relatively white, and we're in his image, why are there other people? And hell, if God's something else, why are we white?

If God is truly omnipotent, then he is all things at all times. So in essence, all races are created in God's image, because God is all images.

And why does God allow other religions to exist?

Free will. Myself? I believe there are many paths to one God.

And if he allows them to exist, why does he care what we believe in, and tell us we'll go to hell if we use our own free will?

(Christian)Choosing God is free will as well. Thats the point. God does not want to "force" you to choose Him, he WANTS you to choose Him. (Jewish) Hell? What Hell?

If we have the free will to believe in whatever we want, why does he want to put limitations on our free will, and say "Well, you can do what you want, but as long as what you want is within what I say."

There are no limitations, but there are consequences. You are free to do whatever you choose without limitation, but you must be prepared to reap what you so.

The one fault I have with religious people, is that whenever they encounter something they can't respond to, they say "The Bible says so" or something to that matter.

You do not understand religion or more specifically, faith, so why would understand that answer? Faith is that which denies evidence. If you could prove the existence of God, then God would no longer be devine. God is the epitome of the sublime. To give God definition is to give him limitations, and therefore he is no longer God.

Remember when the world was flat, and earth was the centre of the Universe?

The earth being flat was a theory endorsed by the church because it was the best of the time and did not refute Christian belief. It's not in the Bible, but was instead adopted as dogma by the Catholic church, which has admitted its past reluctance to adapt. As for earth being the center of the universe, well that depends on exactly what you're talking about. Spacially? No. In God's eyes? Possibly.

And Typhoid, if you truly did not want to "cut down religion", I'd advise not posting a "joke" that is in reality just an insult to those that believe. Thats like saying "I have nothing against black people" and then telling a n****r joke.

Myself, I tend to think that those that are atheists tend not to truly be atheists. An atheist simply does not believe in God. Most that claim to be atheists tend to hate God for various reasons. I used to be in this category. Don't confuse anger with disblief.