BaB Presents: Where'd Wii go Wrong

[Perfect Stu]

Couple things...

First, to BaB: Nintendo has forgotten about the hardcore gamer. And it wasn't a bad move for them...look how many new or relatively new gamers have shelled over hundreds of dollars for DS and Wii. Can you honestly say that Nintendo has marketed their systems towards hardcore gamers since midway through the Gamecube's lifespan? Yeah there is a percentage of hardcore gamers that enjoy Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros, but those games are still primarily focused on the casual gamer who buys one videogame a year. Is there any surprise that games like Grant Theft Auto and Metal Gear Solid weren't made for the Wii?

And Angrist: Do you realize how much money Sony made on PS2 and continues to make from that system? I wouldnt say 'for years now' when only the PS3 caused Sony to take a hit, which lasted about a year, and was for the first time in ages.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Perfect Stu

Couple things...

First, to BaB: Nintendo has forgotten about the hardcore gamer. And it wasn't a bad move for them...look how many new or relatively new gamers have shelled over hundreds of dollars for DS and Wii. Can you honestly say that Nintendo has marketed their systems towards hardcore gamers since midway through the Gamecube's lifespan? Yeah there is a percentage of hardcore gamers that enjoy Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros, but those games are still primarily focused on the casual gamer who buys one videogame a year. Is there any surprise that games like Grant Theft Auto and Metal Gear Solid weren't made for the Wii?

First, don't get how your first point relates to your last point.
I think those games aren't on the Wii more for graphical reasons than anything else.

And I still don't see how Nintendo has abandoned the hardcore. Ignoring last e3 which in my opinion was one long wankfest for Nintendo. They still continue to focus more energy (atleast to me) on promoting their games like Smash and Galaxy over stuff like hell I don't know... Endless Ocean.

And not to knock it, but really you are using GTA to defend hardcore games? It is the prime example of a cross over title. One of those games where a person will buy a system for it and nothing else or until GTA IV Vice City 2 comes out. GTA is a very casual title IMO because most people can play it without ever doing anything of note and come away satisified.

But maybe I am just missing it. So someone explain to me exactly what Nintendo has done to cater less to the hardcore and more to the casuals.

[thatmariolover]

Bottom line, Nintendo is afraid.


Nintendo is afraid to tell 3rd party developers that they have to do better because they can't afford to lose the support they have, limited as it is. They need to bring back the Official Nintendo Seal of Approval and make it mean something. They need to let all the CrapWare filter out, and tell those interested in dev kits that those just trying to make a quick buck need not apply.

They need to quit sitting on all of that money they're making and invest it into acquiring talented dev teams to be molded into dedicated second parties that they can closely monitor. This is the number one way to get some new original games developed instead of rehashing the old favorites (good as they are) and depending on third parties who don't give a damn.

In the end, no Nintendo did not forget hardcore gamers. They make great first party titles and they make them frequently. The issue is that they're not enforcing any sort of quality control on 3rd party titles and until somebody with balls takes over they won't.

[Dyne]

Interesting, thatmariolover. I remember listening to the IGN podcast with the interview with Julian Eggrebrecht and he said the reason they went to Sony is because Nintendo was really keeping the ACTUAL power of the console secret from them - however, they did receive motion-controls for Gamecubes even when they were working on Rogue Squadron 2.

[Professor S]

Wow, this is a great gaming discussion. We have sorely missed this for quite some time. A few responses to random points.

My issue isn't that Nintendo's mew console can't create games for the hardcore gamer, its that they don't care to. No, Twilight Princess was not superficial from what I saw, but thats one game.

Nintendo has always been about making a profit as the number one rule. ALWAYS. Even while in last place last gen, they were able to pull a hefty profit, and many Nintendo fans used that fact to defend their favorite console maker. Now that same argument and reality has come to bite harcore Nintendo fans in the butt because they are stuck with a handful of quality games sailing above a vast ocean of stinky, profitable garbage.

Nintendo tried to compete in the modern generation last go around, and they failed to dominate or even really compete, and they got smart and realized that they would instead create a product that meets casual and lifestyle needs. Nintendo said: "You can have the future and the relevancy. We will take the money NOW." And they have through a fun controller and further exploitation of decades old properties. More power to them as it makes them a ton of cash.

Its smart, but its not me and its not going to help push gaming to the next level and gain it mainstream and artistic legitimacy, and the fact that Nintendo's strategy has proven so successful saddens me.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by Dyne

Interesting, thatmariolover. I remember listening to the IGN podcast with the interview with Julian Eggrebrecht and he said the reason they went to Sony is because Nintendo was really keeping the ACTUAL power of the console secret from them - however, they did receive motion-controls for Gamecubes even when they were working on Rogue Squadron 2.

And yet they don't seem to think that's the problem with the Wii.

My complaints were actually about the games which try to go the traditional, more photorealistic route, because there you really have to push it, and they're really not pushing it," Factor 5 president, Julian Eggebrecht said. "The console's architecture is easy to understand, reasons Eggebrecht, who goes on to speculate that developers and/or publishers are "discarding the graphical capabilities simply because it is a Wii title, and they're basically telling the developers 'look, we won't pay for any advanced graphics'."

Source:
http://www.revogamers.net/articulos-...-de-Wii-5.html (page six), dated 09/10/2007.

As a matter of fact, that's a great read in general about developers not investing time and producers not spending money on making Wii games great.

[Aladuf]

After reading all of this again (great thread btw) I think the Wii (for me) will have to be looked from now on as a completely different experience in all from the PS3/360. When I'm sitting here at night or whenever and thinking of what to play, the Wii never comes to mind. I think to myself "hmm which do I want to play, 360 or PS3". I say that the Wii is separate from the PS3/360 because it's on its own... it's doing its own thing in terms of what it offers. Like I said in my first post, I like the Wii for the first party titles, I was all over Twilight Princess day 1, same with Galaxy, and same with Brawl but that's as far as it goes for me, aside from Wii Sports and Links Crossbow Training those are the only 3 games I own for it.

I'm a fairly "typical gamer" these days, I love to play a game where I have a gun in my hand and I like to shoot anything that stands in my path and that is exactly the offering that the PS3/360 gives me in terms of solid experiences. I can play those 2 consoles all the time because they have the games I crave now but when Nintendo puts out another first party game that I have interest in then I'll drop the PS3/360 like a bad habit for a little while (ask BaB when SSBB came out... he got tired of ME asking to play).

These days people are just so used to comparing all 3 consoles because they used to be on the same level in terms of graphics, games, and hardware in general. So basically, I think the Wii vs. PS3/360 comparisons aren't even necessary these days because the Wii has nothing in common with the other 2 consoles in any concerns whether it be key demographic, hardware, software or anything. The consoles/companies are taking completely separate paths and it's just time to accept that I guess, because I don't see Nintendo turning away from the success they've had and are still having when it comes to the next generation of consoles so the gaming world just needs to get used to a new more "divided" way of gaming.

Edit: broke it up because BaB says people don't read paragraphs! haha

[Perfect Stu]

BABsy, the way Nintendo has turned their backs on the hardcore gamer to ME is by marketing their systems to the new, casual gamer. 3rd parties will then release stuff like carnival games on the system, but not their flagship shooter. And who can blame them? That's the target audience.