New Political Debate: Drinking Age

[Bond]

The issue with harmful behaviors concerning drinking in America is more of a cultural issue than a law issue. I'm not so sure if a change in the legality of underage drinking would change the cultural aspect of this problem.

That being said, I've given this issue a great deal of thought in the past, and haven't been able to decide on a position.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Bond

The issue with harmful behaviors concerning drinking in America is more of a cultural issue than a law issue. I'm not so sure if a change in the legality of underage drinking would change the cultural aspect of this problem.

That being said, I've given this issue a great deal of thought in the past, and haven't been able to decide on a position.

So, a question to maybe ask is:

If we lowered or absolved the drinking age would we remove the mysticism associated with drinking and in effect lower the amount of alcohol abuse amongst teenagers?

Another fair question to ask is: with no drinking age would teens drink under more supervised/safer environments?

Changing the drinking age could, over time, change the cultural views on alcohol.

[Teuthida]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

If we lowered or absolved the drinking age would we remove the mysticism associated with drinking and in effect lower the amount of alcohol abuse amongst teenagers?

I think it would. After I turned 21 I've had no urge to drink.

It should be 18 if only because that's when one legally becomes an adult. Either make 21 the new age for that or 18 for being able to drink.

[Typhoid]

Why is there no "19"?
Blasphemy.

Anyways, I think 19 is the pefect age to have it be legal. It works pretty damn fine here in BC, and if you think about it - it makes sense.


18, I think is too early. Why? Kids can still be in highschool when they're 18 - if their birthday falls in the first few months, and I think that could make things pretty tragic for a few people.

I don't see why you're able to pick the leader of your country when you're 18 (or in some cases younger) yet your country doesn't allowe you to consume alcohol for another 3 years after that.

I'm a firm believer in "The sooner you drink, the sooner it gets out of your system". I'm 21 now, and I'm pretty much fed up with bars and clubs because I've been to them for the past 2 years. And there are adults in the US who can just legally go to them now, and might not get sick of them until their mid-20's.

I think having the age at 21 is really ridiculous in the first place. What's so significant about 21? You're already an adult, you're already in University or College, you're already possibly living on your own, so why can't you go to a bar if you want to?

Silly, silly laws.

[Dyne]

19 is perfect.

Edit poll: 19 added.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

So, a question to maybe ask is:

If we lowered or absolved the drinking age would we remove the mysticism associated with drinking and in effect lower the amount of alcohol abuse amongst teenagers?

Another fair question to ask is: with no drinking age would teens drink under more supervised/safer environments?

Changing the drinking age could, over time, change the cultural views on alcohol.

Okay, I have been given this a lot of thought lately also, and since im only 21 now I have recent experience on the matter. While I might have felt differently a few years ago, after some thought, I dont think lowering the drinking age to 18 will make kids drink less often, in less quantities, or less at all. When I drank underage, I never thought "Since im not suppoused to be doing this, im going to drink a LOT" I can see where the other side comes from, im actually going to do something I normally dont do and agree with Bond here. Its more of a cultural issue. Kids like to drink, and they like to do it a lot, especially college aged kids. I mean, when you turned 21 and it was legal to drink, did you all of a sudden stop drinking large amounts? Of course not, its still fun to drink a lot wether its legal or not. If this happens (which it absolutley wont happen in the foreseeable future, no way whatsoever), I feel it will just lead to more DUI deaths.

There were nights in my youth when I wanted to drink, but couldnt get alcohol. I can only imagine how much more I would have drank if I could have legally bought it.

[Typhoid]

This is what I basically think it comes down to: Upbringing. Nothing more, nothing less. You can make an argument that peer pressure is a factor, but if the kid is brought up right by the parents with proper morals and all that, peer pressure won't effect them as much, as their choice in friends might be more "proper".

Kids will do one of two things, depending on how their raised: Be like their parents because their parents do it; or be nothing like their parents because they resent their parents for doing something.

I think the problem is that for the majority, nobody parents kids anymore. Which leaves a vast group of kids being raised by TV, and their friends parents, which is bad in itself, because another person's mom and dad won't instill the same values on you as they would with their own kids.

There is nothing - at all - you can ever do to get rid of drinking and driving. Kids will do it, adults will do it, premiers will do it. It's just something that will happen. If you don't want your kids to drink and drive, give them ultimatums as a parents, talk to your kids. Be a fucking parent to them, don't blame a substance they went to because either A) You drink all the time as a parent or B) Never took the time out of your busy schedule to even talk to your kids about the seriousness of alcohol consumption.

The problem lies only in parenting. That's my two cents.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Jason1

Okay, I have been given this a lot of thought lately also, and since im only 21 now I have recent experience on the matter. While I might have felt differently a few years ago, after some thought, I dont think lowering the drinking age to 18 will make kids drink less often, in less quantities, or less at all. When I drank underage, I never thought "Since im not suppoused to be doing this, im going to drink a LOT" I can see where the other side comes from, im actually going to do something I normally dont do and agree with Bond here. Its more of a cultural issue. Kids like to drink, and they like to do it a lot, especially college aged kids. I mean, when you turned 21 and it was legal to drink, did you all of a sudden stop drinking large amounts? Of course not, its still fun to drink a lot wether its legal or not. If this happens (which it absolutley wont happen in the foreseeable future, no way whatsoever), I feel it will just lead to more DUI deaths.

There were nights in my youth when I wanted to drink, but couldnt get alcohol. I can only imagine how much more I would have drank if I could have legally bought it.

I agree with the 18-year old logic; if you are an "adult" at 18 by law, you should be able to drink. Otherwise, you're not really an adult....I'm talking about by legal definition by the way, not the subjective age at which someone becomes an adult.

Now, ideally, I'd like to see the drinking age go away altogether. But it won't happen because people will not accept personal responsibility. Here are the big benefits I see of removing the drinking age or removing penalties from catching minors drinking:
-kids will drink in safer or supervised environments
-kids won't be afraid to call their parents if they are drinking (this is a social stigma...some parents would be upset if their child drank, some wouldn't)
-we can slowly instill the idea that alcohol is not a magical drink at a young age

alcohol is a drink...and, when used in excess can have problematic results. same goes with sugar, or caffeine, or speeding.


In my ideal world, my fairy tale, we would charge DUI offenders with attempted murder - because that is what a DUI is.

Less drunks on the road, more teens drinking at home where they can be supervised. Less trouble.

The fact is, people will ALWAYS abuse alcohol. It does not matter what restrictions you have in place....people do not like moderation. Most everyone who drinks that I know have drank too much or gone past their limit. I guess it is part of our social culture surrounding drinking. I'd rather see people pushing that limit in a supervised environment rather than sneaking around or going to frat parties.


Anyway...that's my 2 cents on a subject we will not be able to resolve.

PS I'll be 21 in a few months....I'm excited to be able to go buy beer without going through someone.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

In my ideal world, my fairy tale, we would charge DUI offenders with attempted murder - because that is what a DUI is.

In that case, even driving sober should be considered attempted murder. The number of people who die from vehicle accidents every year is so high I can't believe it isn't talked about more. It's amazing to me that any of us are even allowed to drive vehicles, considering how dangerous it is.

I guess driving drunk would then be considered aggravated attempted murder?

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by manasecret

In that case, even driving sober should be considered attempted murder. The number of people who die from vehicle accidents every year is so high I can't believe it isn't talked about more. It's amazing to me that any of us are even allowed to drive vehicles, considering how dangerous it is.

I guess driving drunk would then be considered aggravated attempted murder?

Pretty bad reasoning. The amount of people who are alive that die is also staggering, but you don't outlaw living. You could also say that people walking out the front door of their house are putting themselves and others in danger, but you don't outlaw going outside just because accidents happen.

There's a difference between going outside and going outside holding the trigger down a fully loaded machine gun, which is comparable to driving sober or driving drunk.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

Pretty bad reasoning. The amount of people who are alive that die is also staggering, but you don't outlaw living. You could also say that people walking out the front door of their house are putting themselves and others in danger, but you don't outlaw going outside just because accidents happen.

There's a difference between going outside and going outside holding the trigger down a fully loaded machine gun, which is comparable to driving sober or driving drunk.

Ok, first off let me clarify and say that I was being glib and I don't really think that driving should be made illegal. Life as we know it wouldn't exist without vehicles, so we can't just outlaw them even if we could. (Sound familiar to drinking?)

My intention was to bring up just how dangerous driving is. Assuming the stats from Acebot's link that 17,448 died in 2001 from alcohol related vehicle accidents and the stat from my link that 43,200/year is also from 2001, that means 40% of vehicle deaths were related to alcohol. That still leaves 25,752 deaths from sober drivers, and it's not like you can really separate getting drunk from the driving part. The deaths caused by drinking and walking home is virtually zero compared to driving drunk. Driving is still the dangerous part of the equation here. So your analogy doesn't really hold up.

A lot more can be done to make driving safer that simply isn't done because people would throw a hissy fit if it were implemented. Do you have red light cameras around where you are? I think they're great, but the amount of people who bitch and moan about getting caught running red lights is laughable. Here's an idea, guys -- don't run red lights!

But I digress. I think we should implement similar systems to control speeding. Speeding cameras are a simple method. We could also introduce chips that force cars to not go over a posted speed limit. These are easily feasible systems. The speeding cameras have been tried from over a decade ago near here. But what happened? The public outcry put it out of commission.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I guess I should make another debate thread about this, but I'm not very good at starting discussions.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Jason1

Okay, I have been given this a lot of thought lately also, and since im only 21 now I have recent experience on the matter. While I might have felt differently a few years ago, after some thought, I dont think lowering the drinking age to 18 will make kids drink less often, in less quantities, or less at all. When I drank underage, I never thought "Since im not suppoused to be doing this, im going to drink a LOT" I can see where the other side comes from, im actually going to do something I normally dont do and agree with Bond here. Its more of a cultural issue. Kids like to drink, and they like to do it a lot, especially college aged kids. I mean, when you turned 21 and it was legal to drink, did you all of a sudden stop drinking large amounts? Of course not, its still fun to drink a lot wether its legal or not. If this happens (which it absolutley wont happen in the foreseeable future, no way whatsoever), I feel it will just lead to more DUI deaths.

Exactly. And whenever the government tries to control culture it just doesn't work (see: prohibition). I think lawmakers should view this issue through a very utilitarian mindset, and that will result in the maximizing of the good for all citizens.