Russia Invades Georgia

[manasecret]

I guess I should have quoted KillerGremlin? My post came after his, it was response to his, not yours. I wasn't calling you glib, I didn't say you wanted to start a World War, etc. Please reread and repost, as you obviously replied with the wrong idea in your head.

I'll respond anyway to some of it because of how much crap you spew, which of course must be all completely correct because you teach a class on the subject. While I respect that you teach and kudos to you, excuse me for doubting your complete expertise on the subject simply because you teach a class on it.

Originally Posted by Professor S

There is so much here, I would have to quote every single sentence to point out every flaw. Instead I'll list the main ones:

1) You are completely different from previous generations, just as my generation is completely different in most aspects from Baby Boomers and they are completely different from Veterans, and we are from different generations (I'm an GenX, you are a Echo Boomer or Millenial).

Our generation being "completely different" from previous generations, "completely" being the key word here, is false and you know it. I figured someone used to arguing wouldn't use absolute terms like that.

Yes, of course the generations have differences. But going back to what KG was bringing up (and what I was responding to), do you really think that our generation today cares any less and does any less about the world's problems than the generations before? If so, prove it, because until you prove otherwise it sounds like just more of the nostalgic crap that every human on this earth seems prone to.

KG mentioned American Idol specifically -- haven't there been celebrities and the adoration of celebrities for the whole past century? He mentions the broke-as-fuck two-party system like it hasn't been that way for two centuries prior, with some major breakups in the system only two or three times. You pick apart my post, but not KG's post. KG's post, which is an opinion piece that boils down to the same ol' trite, "This generation is so much worse than previous generations, back in the day everything was great!" argument that I hear all the time, but never has any facts to back it up with. That argument, or lack of one, irks me.

To act as if our generation doesn't care or do anything about the world problems is asinine and insulting. Here's a list of things off the top of my head that our generation has participated in:

1. Peace Corps
2. Live Aid - EDIT: I must be thinking of a different concert charity, I could have sworn Live Aid or something similar to it still goes on annually. I must be thinking of Live 8 and Live Earth.
3. UNICEF
4. Countless volunteer programs at universities and high schools across the U.S.
5. Child's Play
6. Countless facebook groups and events raising money for countless charities

And these are ones I just thought of. And in response to the inevitable argument about facebook groups (or anything similar) being useless, raising awareness and raising money are noble goals. Is holding a rock concert any different?

I teach a class on generational Identities that is based on seven published studies, so I doubt you know more on this subject than I... unless you, you know, GOOGLE it, then you would of course be an expert, just like your generation apparently has mastered Africa's ills by reading a Wikipedia entry.

2) Do your generation really know that much about starving children in Africa? If you do, why doesn't anyone care enough to do anything about it? Has knowing about starving children in Africa stopped ANYTHING? No, while we might know MORE about tharving childen in Africa, in the end our knowledge changes NOTHING. Actions change the world, not knowledge, and you can only act on knowledge when history and experience put that knowledge into context.

By the way, I find your arrogance about how much your generation KNOWS to be silly. If your generation knows so much, why was LIVE AID created by Baby Boomers ands the Children's Miracle Network created by Veterans? We've known quite a bit about Africa and world events for a long time now, without the aid of the misinformation and bias bible that is the internet.

I didn't mean that our generation has mastered Africa's ills any better than any previous generation. What I meant was that our generation as a whole knows more about the problems of Africa and the rest of the world than previous generations at a similar age simply by the mass of information out there. (To clarify just a little more, I mean that more individuals know more about the world's problems than the number that did in previous generations.)

How was information spread to the masses before the 1990s? Through newspapers, TV, libraries, and other media. How is information spread to the masses now? Through all of those sources, PLUS the biggest and most complete and most up-to-date library the world has ever known and that only gets stronger every day, the internet. Now, which one trumps the other in how much information is available?

Heh, Internet bashing, that's a new one for me, especially odd since of course you use the internet for the same purposes as the rest of us. How many of your arguments have you waged with facts gleaned solely from the internet?

3) And I never said I wanted to start a World War, and in history, it has been INACTION that has made World Wars inevitable. I could run through every single parallel bewteen this situation and those in the past that have lead to horror, but you've made it quite obvious making decisions based on evidence and history mean nothing to you, so I won't bother.

This one makes me laugh. Please prove that I have made "it quite obvious making decisions based on evidence and history mean nothing to" me, and make sure to include references to evidence and the history of my posts. Or maybe that was just a shot because you thought I was responding to your post?

In the end my main reason why I think the younger generations don't care about world events, but they know about the, and that makes it worse. Knowledge is not a virtue, and in fact, if you are aware of the evils of the world, but still do nothing or advocate inaction.... well, someone said it better than I:

In the end, my main point was that denouncing our entire generation as a bunch of people that don't care about the world is hogwash, and if you're going to say that then at least attempt to offer some proof for your opinion. (Another hint -- a thread from a board about video games doesn't count.) To me it sounds like the exact same thing that every previous generation says about the generation that comes after them. Everyone always thinks their generation was the best one ever, and kids these days never do anything right, not like in my day! And yet the world keeps on turning as different generations come along, and the world is a far better place today then it was 100, 80, 50, 20, whatever years ago.

[Professor S]

Mana, you're quibbling over small points. You criticize me for using absolutes and generalizations without realizing that absolutes based on generalizations are the ONLY WAY to analyze a generation. We're talking about millions of people. It is a given that the assertions are not true for every individual.

But that doesn't mean that there aren't severe and definitive differences when we analyze those generations when we combine the individuals based on shared experience and attitudes. Once again, that doesn't mean there can;t be exceptions, as I recognize I am an exception in many cases, but the exception does not invalidate the rule.

And for the record, almost none of the charitable organizations were created by the bottom two generations and compared to the size of the generations our involvement in them isn't even worth mentioning. Try again.

[Professor S]

But the funny part is, through all of this quibbling about whether generational identities are valid in this ccontext, we STILL SEE NO ATTEMPT TO PROVE OTHERWISE IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD.

Mana, it seems you'd rather argue the obvious than truly contend my point by actually posting about world events. You can tell me what your generation and my does and doesn't do all you like, but all the bottom two generations have SHOWN me is the exact opposite, regardless of your rhetoric.

[Professor S]

Back on topic:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7576556.stm

Russia finally pulls out... oh wait... not so much.

[manasecret]

Dah, I forgot the part I meant most to respond to.

Originally Posted by Professor S

Mana, you're quibbling over small points. You criticize me for using absolutes and generalizations without realizing that absolutes based on generalizations are the ONLY WAY to analyze a generation. We're talking about millions of people. It is a given that the assertions are not true for every individual.

But that doesn't mean that there aren't severe and definitive differences when we analyze those generations when we combine the individuals based on shared experience and attitudes. Once again, that doesn't mean there can;t be exceptions, as I recognize I am an exception in many cases, but the exception does not invalidate the rule.

And for the record, almost none of the charitable organizations were created by the bottom two generations and compared to the size of the generations our involvement in them isn't even worth mentioning. Try again.

Prove it then. Do you have some kind of statistics you are referring to about how much money and time one generation contributed over another? Or just generalization based on your own experience?

Yes, I understand that generalizations can be generally correct, that's the idea, but unless you have statistics or studies or trends to back up your generalization, then your generalization is as good as any other. If you have some studies to refer to, I would like for you to share some of what you know. I'll make another thread if that makes you feel better about it.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Dah, I forgot the part I meant most to respond to.

Prove it then. Do you have some kind of statistics you are referring to about how much money and time one generation contributed over another? Or just generalization based on your own experience?

No... NUMBERS. Since 1961, 178,000 people have volunteered for the peace corps. Even if the entirety of that number was from Generation X, it would amount to a total of .45%... not 45%... .45% of our population. Currently there are about 6,000 peace corps volunteers, and an estimated 110,000,000 GenXers and Millenials (40,000,000 X and 77,000,000 Millenials). I tried to create a percentage for that, but it was literally so minute is caused my calculator to error out.

http://www.peacecorps.gov/index.cfm?...w&news_id=1011

I don't even need to mention Live Aid, as it was created by Bob Geldof who was born in 1951 making him a Baby Boomer, and more obviously... Africa is still a complete mess anyway.

Its a perfect example of how intentions and feelings and even money mean next to nothing. Live Aid was important only because it raised awareness, but being aware of horrors and then ignoring them is worse than being ignorant of those horrors in the first place.

UNICEF was created in 1946 to help with the rebuilding effort after WW2. I like UNICEF. Probably the only thing the UN has done right, and I too sold candy bars to raise money for them. The real people making it work are Europeans.

http://www.unicef.org/about/who/index_history.html

Which reminds me: To be clear, my statements directly refer to American and to a lesser extent, Canadian generations. Other countries generations had much different formative experiences.

And to be honest, you keep talking about raising money, and money means nothing if it isn't applied correctly. There are dozens, if not more, charitable organizations that are frauds. AmeriVets is one, only distributing about 20% of their collected donations. But if money is all that important, here are a couple links:

http://www.thematuremarket.com/silve...y-8138-19.html

http://www.charitynavigator.org/inde....view&cpid=765
That one comes to your defense, but the data is skewed to do so because they remove religion as an aspect of the generation, which is silly.

http://philanthropy.com/free/article...3/03002501.htm

Part of the problem may be due to generational differences. In a 2003 study by Richard Steinberg and Mark Wilhelm at the Indiana University Center on Philanthropy, 53 percent of households headed by members of Generation X — individuals born from 1961 to 1981 — reported giving to charity. That was significantly less than households headed by baby boomers (75 percent) and those headed by people born before World War II (80 percent).

I'm talking about actions. I give to the LSA, but that isn't the same as working to stop Cancer, and I certainly don't go around and pretend that I'm informed about it because I raise money. And by the way, older generations are FAR more generous with cash, and religious people are more generous than any other demographic.

Yes, I understand that generalizations can be generally correct, that's the idea, but unless you have statistics or studies or trends to back up your generalization, then your generalization is as good as any other. If you have some studies to refer to, I would like for you to share some of what you know. I'll make another thread if that makes you feel better about it.

The following is from the handout for our Generational Identities class that I co-wrote and teach. The information is based on 7 studies that I cannot reveal as it is proprietary information. The parts relating to this discussion involve the advancement of informational technology and how it has changed the way that younger generations think, where they trust information over experience.

The Generations:
• Veterans (born 1925-1942)
• Baby Boomers (born 1943-1960)
• Gen X (born 1961-1981)
• Echo Boomers (born after 1982)

Veterans … The Silent Generation
These clients need the bottom line. They are very money conscious and rather frugal. They may fear that they may outlive their assets, and they do not wish to rely on their children to provide for them. They may not need all the fluff, but they do want the bare facts clearly explained.
Considered to be the last generation with strong social skills, this generation usually can tell a good story or play a great round of golf or a hand of bridge.

One common mistake that agents often make is the idea they are really working for the child of the senior. Although this is true in some instances, remember this generation has come through many difficulties, and it could be perceived as an insult if the information isn’t directed to them.

This group is:
• Cautious
• Have concern about their money’s value
• Maintain interest in neighborhood value
• Expect respect and fairness

Boomers
At 77 million people, this is the biggest group of buyers and sellers in the market today. The oldest in this group is in their early 60s. Historically, they are not budget minded and may be in debt. Although they are aging they believe they are ageless, most are far from thinking about retirement and many still have children living at home. (The average Echo Boomer lives at home well into their 20s.) They want the listing information on a report, but probably don’t want you to explain every detail; they will be interested in the summary information. They aren’t known for their patience so the answers need to be to the point.

A survey by NAR in 2006 indicated that most Boomers want professional services when they buy/sell Real Estate. NAR believes that boomers expect professional service and guidance and that they value those services. They expect that the professional will help to establish the correct asking price; explain all contracts, forms, agreements and will do all the negotiating on their behalf. In other words, they expect service!

This group is typically:
• Idealistic
• Cynical
• Not budget minded
• Impatient (want results)
• Uncomfortable with new technology
• Expectant of service

Gen X
This generation has that "Prove it or move it" attitude. They question everything. If they don't like what you have to say, they’ll take their business some place else. Like all generations, they are culturally egocentric. You need to speak their language and do business in the medium that they are most comfortable, the Internet.

This self-reliant group very likely will already know much of what you have to present. They can be very informal and technologically proficient. They will expect you to know at least as much as they know, but will expect that you know more.

This group is typically:
• Self reliant
• Pragmatic
• Seem demanding (question everything)
• Adaptable
• Poor people skills

Echo Boomers … Gen Y
Nearly 77 million, the largest group since the Boomers. This group is the youngest of home buyers. The oldest of the group is just entering the market place. They buy young, the average echo-boomer buys their first home at age 26; that’s three years sooner than most GenXers. A very diverse group; technology, Internet, e-communications, diversity are all within their grasp.

Although this group is very comfortable with technology, they seek expertise and associate it with experience. They will expect to be treated as adults and will be put off if they feel they are not being taken seriously.

This group is typically:
• Optimistic
• Confident
• Achievement-oriented
• Impatient
• Idealistic
• Multi-tasking

I'll post the info we give for ouir handout that we teach. It is based on 7 studies that I can't reveal because they are my companies Proprietary information. The main issues we cover that relate to this discussion is how advancements in information technology has influenced the younger generations to value information over experience.

[KillerGremlin]

damn...that's a lot of statistics.
i make one post that is mostly out of jest and not all that serious and i start this massive debate....in a way i feel like jebus