A discussion on the "n" word

[Typhoid]

This thread has the chance to be extremely offensive. That is not my intention at all. If you will be offended by reading, please stop - but know I am not talking in an offensive way when doing so, just sharing my thoughts, and if even the SIGHT of the word scares you, also stop reading, since I will not be starring it out, as it is only a word, an offensive word if used in the right context, but still a word. I am not trying to push the envelope, or other's buttons, just trying to get peoples thoughts on it, since white North America is afraid to talk about it.

Now let's start this off. I'm White, and my dad is - in my eyes - a pretty racist guy, which is why I started thinking about this.


Used derrogatorily, yes - it is extremely offensive. Just as any other racial remark is when aimed at that group of people. But other than that, it's just a word.

Now, to move forward in society, we have to come to a decision. To progress, would the complete and utter destruction of the word nigger push us forward, or would just lessening the "bad-ness" of it work? I'm not talking sheer and utter desensitization to the youth, so they over-use it as they do "gay". I have a group of friends - white friends - who often say "Nigger" often. Never aimed at anyone, but just sort of shouting it out, as one would the word "fuck."

However, personally - and I know I am not the eyes and the ears of the world - see it as just a word, when said alone. Let's face it, that's all it is. I'm not going to bring in the "Slavery was long ago" bullshit. That doesn't mean it was less atrocious. The crusades still sucked, the plague blew, enslaving jews in Egypt was wrong, and always will be.

I can see how "You nigger" would be offensive to a black person who you're displeased with, just as I can see "motherfucker" is offensive when walking in on someone engaged in sexual intercourse with their own mother. But pull those words from a situation, and all you have are bad words. Some words are worse than others, yes. But they're just words. Take the word "cunt." Possibly said less often by white north-america than nigger is. Both are offensive words when used in context, aimed at the sex/race they pertain to. But take them out of that, and you just have the equivalent of someone shouting "fuck".


Now, maybe I don't find the word offensive in it's entirety, even when said alone, not towards or near a black person, just as I don't know what childbirth will ever be like, considering I'm not a woman.

If this thread offended you, it was purely accidental. However, you should stop and wonder why it is you're offended by it. I'm not saying the word is on par with things you bring up in daily chats with grade-school kids, nor am I saying it's proper table-talk. But neither are a lot of words. Fuck, Shit, Piss, Balls, Cunt, Twat, Tits, Dick, Asshole, Shitfucker, Motherfucker, Nigger, Chink, Spik, Nip, Cocksucker.

There are a lot of bad words. A ton. I'm not saying use them all on a constant daily basis. You don't tell your 3 year old to fuck off, and I wouldn't expect you to interchange "black people" with "niggers", just as I don't expect you to swap "chinese" with "chink". Offensive words are only offensive when used offensively.

That's my two cents. I await the backlash of white people.

[Dylflon]

Nooooo! You're going to ruin swearing for all of us!

[manasecret]

So you're asking if the word 'nigger' can be used without being offensive?

Yeah, it can. And one day I hope it gets to the point of a word like 'fuck' or any other "bad word" that you can say openly without offending most people (there is always someone that will be offended by any such words).

But I don't think we're anywhere near that day. And I don't think it's something you can force to be just another bad word. It will kind of just become one, I guess by way of people using it openly in non-offensive ways.

As for the argument to just stop using it, I don't think there's any way to just eradicate the word like, who is it, Jess Jackson? wants to do, by simply saying, "C'mon, guys, let's not use the word." Especially when he still uses it himself. It's a cultural thing, not just a word, and only when the culture that fosters the use of 'nigger' is no more will it even have a chance of being gone. Chances are it will morph into another meaning, though, before it eradicates itself, if it ever does.

My thoughts.

[KillerGremlin]

Regardless of how you feel on the subject of the n-word, mutter it out loud in any real American city, and you will get shot.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by manasecret

(there is always someone that will be offended by any such words).

And the prolifically contextual revelation about a word with racist implications comes out!

From Wikipedia:

Nigger is a pejorative term used to refer to dark-skinned people, mostly those of Black African ancestry. For centuries, it has held negative connotations, and in modern times, in most contexts, it is considered a racial slur

from: http://www.google.com/search?q=defin...ient=firefox-a (I had a chuckle at the first and third definitions)

I think the over-use (especially in Black culture) of the n-word has numbed it down, and people forget that it is still a racist slur. "Fuck" has no racial weight behind its context, so while it is offensive to some people, who fucking cares?

Faggot, Coon, Beaner, Wop, Nigger...can these words really be used in a contextually neutral way?

Presumably, the N-word will be diluted to a point where a majority of the population accepts it as a neutral term. I, however, do not foresee this happening any time soon as it stills carries heavy racial context.

Edit:
I assume this will be brought up....the use of the "n-word" and its social acceptance in black culture is, indeed, a double standard. The fact that 50 Cent can drop the word 200 times on his album, and no one seems to care illustrates this dilution in modern popular culture. The fact is, I still think there is an overwhelming group of Blacks that feel the word is offensive, regardless if the person using it is black. It is a social viewpoint that is hidden away very well.

[Teuthida]

As long as there are people who can still use the word with its original intent, it will always be offensive.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Offensive words are only offensive when used offensively.

Originally Posted by Teuthida

As long as there are people who can still use the word with its original intent, it will always be offensive.

my footnote: You cannot throw the N-word into a category of bad words (fuck, piss, cunt, shit, crap, damn). Based on the origins of N-word and its definition, it carries contextual racial weight. Regardless if your meaning was racist or not, the word has a racial undertone that precedes your own use of it.

In my opinion...bad words have a category and racial slurs have a category. the social dilemma with the n-word is its common use in popular culture.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

And the prolifically contextual revelation about a word with racist implications comes out!

Not sure what you're getting at.

From Wikipedia:

from: http://www.google.com/search?q=defin...ient=firefox-a (I had a chuckle at the first and third definitions)

I think the over-use (especially in Black culture) of the n-word has numbed it down, and people forget that it is still a racist slur. "Fuck" has no racial weight behind its context, so while it is offensive to some people, who fucking cares?

Faggot, Coon, Beaner, Wop, Nigger...can these words really be used in a contextually neutral way?

You're right that the word will always be a word on a different level from words like 'fuck'. But 'nigger' has a whole lot more weight behind it than the other words you listed, 'faggot', 'coon', 'beaner', 'wop' ... these are words that, unless you're a politician, you can get away with making jokes using those words.

Can you do the same with the word 'nigger'?

Presumably, the N-word will be diluted to a point where a majority of the population accepts it as a neutral term. I, however, do not foresee this happening any time soon as it stills carries heavy racial context.

Exactly my thoughts. Eventually, it will be diluted to the level of other racial slurs. Still not nice, still racist, but with less weight behind it.

Edit:
I assume this will be brought up....the use of the "n-word" and its social acceptance in black culture is, indeed, a double standard. The fact that 50 Cent can drop the word 200 times on his album, and no one seems to care illustrates this dilution in modern popular culture. The fact is, I still think there is an overwhelming group of Blacks that feel the word is offensive, regardless if the person using it is black. It is a social viewpoint that is hidden away very well.

It may be a double standard, but isn't that fair? Most Jews I know will tell you it's ok if they make jokes about Jews, but not ok for Gentiles to make Jewish jokes. The same goes for jokes about Latin Americans, Asians, etc. Is that any different?

[The Germanator]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

my footnote: You cannot throw the N-word into a category of bad words (fuck, piss, cunt, shit, crap, damn). Based on the origins of N-word and its definition, it carries contextual racial weight. Regardless if your meaning was racist or not, the word has a racial undertone that precedes your own use of it.

Yeah, I think this is the part that gets me. Racial slurs like the n-word (and any others referring to specific cultures, races, sexual preference, etc) are used to specifically insult that group of people.

The beauty of bad words like "mother-fucker" or "asshole" or "dick" is that these can describe anyone. That white guy over there is a mother-fucker, that black guy is a total asshole, that latino guy is a dick, and that asian guy is a fuckface. If you believe the person to be one of these things, sure it's insulting and "bad" but it doesn't directly single out something stereo-typical and offense about the group of people.

It's what bugs me about people who think it's "okay" to use a racial slur if they think that person of an other race deserved it for doing something stupid or for some kind of action. If a white guy robs you or cuts you off at an intersection or steals your girlfriend, he should just be a "fucking prick." Same goes if it's a black or asian or whatever. We already have enough words to insult people without having them to be specifically racist in tone.

[BreakABone]

Let me add my two cents...

Originally Posted by Typhoid

That's my two cents. I await the backlash of white people.

... Oh wait...

[Professor S]

Racism is an absurd belief structure, and so it mnust be treated as such. Dave Chappelle did more to destroy the power of the N-word than anyone in history, because he made fun of racism and the word's power by using it as a joke on itself.

Unfortunately, he went nuts...

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Racism is an absurd belief structure, and so it mnust be treated as such. Dave Chappelle did more to destroy the power of the N-word than anyone in history, because he made fun of racism and the word's power by using it as a joke on itself.

I agree that Dave Chappelle did more to destroy its power more than anyone. His show was something else, extremely funny, and unfortunate that it ended so abruptly. It's amazing to me the cultural force that comedy can be.

[Typhoid]

That's because comedy takes things that are normally offensive and makes you realize that the only thing offensive about most things is the belief that what you're saying or doing is offensive. Once you remove that, it's just idiotic.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Not sure what you're getting at.

I was just trying to make love to the English dictionary by sounding smart. Hee-haw!

Originally Posted by manasecret

You're right that the word will always be a word on a different level from words like 'fuck'. But 'nigger' has a whole lot more weight behind it than the other words you listed, 'faggot', 'coon', 'beaner', 'wop' ... these are words that, unless you're a politician, you can get away with making jokes using those words.

Beaner is "less" racist than the N-word, but they are still words with some racial context. Unlike "fuck," I have yet to use the word "beaner" in a non-racist mannerism, even if it was a joking one.

Originally Posted by manasecret

It may be a double standard, but isn't that fair? Most Jews I know will tell you it's ok if they make jokes about Jews, but not ok for Gentiles to make Jewish jokes. The same goes for jokes about Latin Americans, Asians, etc. Is that any different?

I discriminate against everyone, because if I left some groups out that would make me racist.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Unfortunately, he went nuts...

I think he's doin' alright. You have to give the guy mad props, he apparently had a hell of a work ethic, and he seemed like a hell of a NORMAL guy. I suggest (rap fan or not) that you check out Dave Chappelle's Block Party. He did an interview on either Conan or Leno, and he just seems to be one of the most down to earth guys. Of course you probably know all this. I think he went nuts because Comedy Central tried to hijack his original and funny show. Apparently he was offered large sums of money but I don't think Dave was doing it for the money...I think he liked to make people laugh.