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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-03-2009, 04:53 PM
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#1
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Cheesehead
Bond is offline
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
I know this post was directed toward Professor, but I would like to jump in here with a few points. At the time of the invasion I was an ardent supporter. Since then, my support has waned, but I still do think a case can be made.
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Originally Posted by Dylflon
What concerns me however it the pretext under which US Forces went into the country. If I remember correctly there were a series of different excuses that changed as the conflict went on. I can't remember if it started with Iraqi ties to Al Quaeda or with the belief that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
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The public reasoning that the Administration put forth during the lead-up to the Iraq war was, in retrospect, mostly inaccurate, yes. However, the intelligence agencies of France, Great Britain, and the United States, all believed that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. So, did the Administration "lie" to the American people? Perhaps. It is also possible they believed this intelligence (they had no reason not to), and that it was their primary motivation for going to war.
Personally, I don't think the threat of weapons of mass destruction was their primary motivation for war, but it was the easiest to sell to the American people. I find the primary motivations to go to war with Iraq were two-fold: 1) To establish greater long-term stability within the Middle East and 2) To secure oil.
At the time of the Iraq invasion, there were two democracies in the Middle East: Afghanistan and Israel. This kind of situation does not bread stability. The Middle East is a part of the world with a long and storied history of conflict and hatred. It is also a strategically important part of the globe. This is why it becomes America's interest to stabilize the region. Let's look at the map:
It is interesting to note that Iran is now sandwiched between two democracies.
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Though both of these claims were used as the main excuse for invasion at different times. After both of them were proven to be baseless, the reason then became liberation of Iraqi people. I'm not saying that this was not an intention all along, more that it wasn't the main reason for occupation covered in the media. And even then the irony is that it's hard to feel liberated as a people when you have foreign occupants in your country.
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For the accuracy of claims made pre-war, I would refer you to this document by the Council on Foreign Relations:
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Has Iraq sponsored terrorism?
Yes. Saddam Hussein’s dictatorship provided headquarters, operating bases, training camps, and other support to terrorist groups fighting the governments of neighboring Turkey and Iran, as well as to hard-line Palestinian groups. During the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam commissioned several failed terrorist attacks on U.S. facilities. Prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the State Department listed Iraq as a state sponsor of terrorism. The question of Iraq’s link to terrorism grew more urgent with Saddam’s suspected determination to develop weapons of mass destruction (WMD), which Bush administration officials feared he might share with terrorists who could launch devastating attacks against the United States.
Was Saddam involved in the September 11 attacks?
There is no hard evidence linking Saddam to the attacks, and Iraq denies involvement. Many commentators have noted that Baghdad failed to express sympathy for the United States after the attacks.
Does Iraq have ties with al-Qaeda?
The Bush administration insists that hatred of America has driven the two closer together, although many experts say there’s no solid proof of such links and argue that the Islamist al-Qaeda and Saddam’s secular dictatorship would be unlikely allies.
Has Iraq ever used weapons of mass destruction?
Yes. In the 1980s Iran-Iraq War, Iraqi troops repeatedly used poison gas, including mustard gas and the nerve agent sarin, against Iranian soldiers. Iranian officials have also accused Iraq of dropping mustard-gas bombs on Iranian villages. Human Rights Watch reports that Iraq frequently used nerve agents and mustard gas against Iraqi Kurds living in the country’s north. In March 1988, Saddam’s forces reportedly killed thousands of Iraqi Kurds in the town of Halabja with chemical weapons.
Source: Council on Foreign Relations
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If we're working under the idea of self defense then the argument is really in the vein of a "It's coming right for us" shoot first, ask later mentality. Because potentially you could label any country as a potential future threat but this should not be grounds for occupation.
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Well, the war was certainly not fought for the short-term stability of the United States. Iraq posed no imminent threat to our country, although it may have posed an imminent threat to Israel (another issue). The war was in the interest of long-term stability in the Middle East, and in turn benefiting the long-term stability of the United States.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-03-2009, 08:44 PM
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#2
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wants a yacht
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
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Minimum wage: Much better than the REAL slave wages of the turn of century tenements, that was well after you claim all of this began. Also, less than two percent of our population work for minimum wage, and most of them are part time. Also, if there is a conspiracy, why is minimum wage being raised over the next few years?
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If you look at the industrial revolution, and how it restructured society, I think you'll find that the dawn of the 'middle class' is something unique to only a few decades as well as only a select few western countries. The more recent growth of the middle class in countries such as India and China can't be compared to that of the western world because the rise of the middle class in said countries has only been made possible by the further impoverishment of the majority of citizens. Broaden this outlook and you'll find that the middle class in America, Canada, Japan and Europe has been made possible by the increasing rate of poverty in most of the world. I'm saying that a ridiculously small percentage of the world's population has been able to live within the standards of the middle class while most have been kept in poverty. Minimum wage is being raised because of normal inflation rates. And, to say that minimum wage is increasing doesn't reflect what is occurring elsewhere. It wasn't too long ago that in BC they introduced a 6$/hour starting wage. Increased costs of living have required a basic minimum wage raise, but with the illegal immigrant influx into your country, minimum wage for non-citizens won't increase because they have no political 'merit'. They're illegal immigrants, taking the shitjobs which deliver an obscenely low wage.....and at the same time it's a rich wage if you compare it to the country just south of yours. And if you include the population that works for slightly higher than minimum wage, full time, you'd find that it includes a rather substantial percentage of workers in America. When you combine income tax(which in the united states fuels the war efforts more than anything else) to the already low wages available it helps establish an environment that isn't 'slavery' but it's pretty darn close. Over 500 000 jobs were lost this last November in America. Think about where this is heading in terms of quality of life, overall wage decreases, etc. Economic analysts are predicting upwards of a million lost jobs/month in this new year......
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World population and quality of life: Ok, Africa is a mess... what about the rest of the world? Why do you ignore anything that discredits your argument? You still haven't done anything to disprove the OBVIOUS statements I've made.
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I shouldn't have to hold your hand and lead you along the train of thought which leads to...the rest of the world outside of Africa. MEXICO, which is right below you, is in a huge mess. There's no work. The money that could be made in agriculture isn't being distributed to local workers because most of the main crop production is now owned by big agri corporations. I just listened to an hour long special on CBC yesterday about how the quality of life continues to decline since the 1994 recession and the onslaught of 'free trade' legislation. Mexico does have a 'decent' middle class, but it's nowhere near the levels of a first world country such as Canada. If we were to travel farther south, you'd find that all the other Latin American countries are experiencing the same phenomenon only worse in most cases. Should we look at Asia? I shouldn't have to point out that just because life expectency is higher in the other continents, quality of life in general is nowhere near the levels that you seem to assume.
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If I'm "oblivious" to the truth, then why have you not been able to explain how this conspiracy has failed in terms of population and standard of living? You claim that wealth is not evening out, but thats information from the past decade... what about comparatively over the last 100 to 200 years? You claim this conspiracy is old, and I hold you to that. Once again, this conspiracy fails miserably. If anything, this New World Order would have better met their goals if they kept with the Old World Order.
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Again, I think you're ignoring the reality which resides outside your American border. Comparitively, the last 100-200 years has been an era of empires and colonialization which has only brought 'relative wealth' to a select few. We could take a look at the systematic destruction of native culture in every corner of the globe, but that wouldn't have anything to do with the topic of 'conspiracy theories' could it? or could it? and don't try to blame it solely on religious institutions. Religious groups(catholic and protestant alike) were allowed to abuse the native population here in Canada, with government knowledge. I'm not saying the hundreds, thousands of cases of abuse towards natives was completely known to elected officials, but the idealogy of reformed culture was what drove this movement...and this was going on less than 50 years ago! one small example of the new environment being handed out. This falls into the greater conspiracy which involves the religious powers of this world, which I'll elaborate on.
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Vaccines: I never said that the vaccines would develop bacteria, I said they would spoil, and they likely would. There are all kinds of chances for them to be contaminated. As for the preservative, its been removed from children's vaccines because thats the only group where there is EVIDENCE that there MIGHT be a detrimental effect. Persoanlly, I think there is a bad effect, but its yet to be PROVEN. As for vaccines no saving lives, thats absurd. I'll agree that hepatitis vaccines are not necessary for much of the DEVEOPED world, but in places like Africa and Mexico Hep A is a definitve threat and Hep B is 100+ times more communicable than AIDS.
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I didn't say vaccines don't save lives. I'm talking about required flu vaccinations. This is being legislated in your country. And child vaccines do still contain trace amounts of thimerosal.
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Approximately 12 out of the 18 vaccine doses the average American child receives before the age of two contain Thimerosal. Cumulatively, that's more than 200 micrograms of mercury, which would fit on the head of a pin.
According to the EPA, dropping that pin-head of mercury into 23 gallons of water would make it unsafe for human consumption.
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Dr. Jane Siegel is a professor of pediatrics at UT Southwestern in Dallas. For the past five years, Siegel has sat on the government vaccine committee that decides which vaccines are mandatory for children.
"I believe there is no data thus far that's been looked at to prove that there's a connection - that there's a causitive relationship," Siegel said.
But just two years ago, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did conduct a study, which showed that three-month-old babies exposed to just 63 micrograms of mercury - less than half of the aforementioned pin top - were two-and-a-half times more likely to develop autism.
The study is stamped "Confidential" and "Do Not Copy or Release." Siegel says it was never made public because it was just a draft.
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But once again, if there is a conspiracy, how does any of this help achieve it? How does flouride help the NWO control people? How does the vaccine preservative? By creating autism (if true)? How does any of this achieve the goals you've said the NWO has?
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I just assumed that you'd make the connection between lowered IQ levels and the ability to manipulate people of reduced intellect. THAT'S HOW FLUORIDE PLAYS A ROLE. THE KNOWN EFFECTS OF FLUORIDE WERE KNOWN TO NAZI PROPAGANDA SCIENTISTS AND HAS BEEN CLEARLY IDENTIFIED AS A USEFUL AGENT IN COMPLACING A SOCIETY. If you damage the developing minds of the people, induced autism for example, then you're ridding the nation of freethinking individuals who have the capacity to stand up against lies and deceit.
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And nano-technology? In vaccines? Really?
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You should read up on nanotechnology. Also, acquaint yourself with the verichip technology which is already in wide use as of today. It's on all the newly issued credit cards and passports. It can pinpoint the holder's geographic position within meters. Already some corporations in America are requiring implanted chips in their employees. I'm not drawing any correlation between this chip technology and the mark of the beast found within the Bible. I believe it's merely another technology that can be used to control the population. Nanotechnology has the potential to be used in an 'unhelpful' fashion. I believe there is substantial evidence to suggest that it isn't beyond legistlators to impose laws which jeopardize people's safety.
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Sun screen was developed by THE MAN??? REALLY???? It couldn't been that in the 40's and 50's our standard of living grew, vacations became more common and with the development of the affordable CAR travel to BEACHES became more popular? It couldn't have been SUN BURN?????? As for Vitamin D, if its part of the conspiracy, WHY DO WE PUT IT IN MILK???? Or is that really nanobots?
For the record, my dad worked out in the sun with no sunscreen all his life, and at age sixty he started going to the dermatologist to have melanoma's removed every 6 months. He's done this every six months for the last 8 years. His skin is do thin in the exposed areas he'll often start bleeding fr no reason when the weather is dry. Please don't make anymore statements like these about sunscreen...
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First of all, I'm sorry to hear that about your dad. However, I don't see it as reason enough to not talk about the detrimental effects of sunscreen. If you read my previous statement you'd find that I'm not saying that prolonged exposure to harmful UV rays is without risk. What I'm saying is that an industry has been created which not only is unhealthy, it is a valid danger to those most vulnerable among us...children. What about prior to the 50's, before the influx of migration towards urban centers, when farmers did there thing day in and day out. Exposure to the sun has been around as long as us humans...duh. Fun days at the beach isn't the answer. Of course sunburns increase the chance of developing melanoma. But, when you directly inhibit the bodies ability to produce vitamin D then you are allowing cancer to spread more easily. IT'S A FACT. It's a fact that Canada has some of the highest cancer rates in the world. Did you know that well over 80% of canadians are vitamin D deficient in the winter months? There's a reason why I take vit D suppliments. And it has nothing to do with conspiracies, putting vit D in milk. The body needs vit D to assimulate calcium. Another example of harmful industries, look at the dairy industry. Over and over we've all seen the "be healthy, drink milk" adds funded by the dairy industry. Dairy milk(unless coming from non-gmo fed, non-hormone injected, organic cattle) then it is harmful and will certainly contribute to the overall inability of the body to fight cancer. I'll get into a health debate with you if you want, but I can pull sources all day that discredit the dairy industry's assertations that milk is actually a healthy source of calcium. All the calcium that anybody needs can be gained from eating a proper amount of green leafy vegetables. This brings me back to my point,,, the body needs certain levels of vitamin D to maintain a strong skeletal system. The body produces vit D naturally when sun exposure occurs. However, sunscreen effectively stops the bodies transfer of sunlight into vit D. This is a fact and I have no idea how you came up with your last sentence in regards to vit D being part of a conspiracy. It's just another example that I put forward to show that a healthy society, living long lives free of pharmaceutical intervention is hardly in the 'MAN's' interests. From what the most recent studies are showing, Vitamin D could be the single most easy way of decreasing the chances of one developing cancer. money money monnnnnay
Should I point out the inflated chemotherapy industry...which I would compare to the oil industry in that there's a purposefully inflated need. Did you know chemo treatments rake in huge profits? also, chemo treatment is becoming more and more expensive. If people went the holistic route of health, in the prevention AND treatment of cancer, then more would see chemotherapy for what it truly is, an industry created to treat an extenuated problem. Maybe if people would wake up to the detrimental affects of sunscreen then there would be a little less cancer in the world. NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD GO BAKE IN THE SUN ALL DAY! Common sense says not to slather on a bunch of harmful chemicals over my permeable skin..common sense also would have me cover up my skin with a light, breathable material as a way to avoid skin damage. And just to say, I have two uncles, two aunties, and a grandfather who developed skin cancer so it's not like I haven't been affected by the issue.
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And Aids in Africa? Its a drop is the bucket is terms of causes of death. Water born illnesses have a far larger body count than Aids does, including Hep A that I talked about earlier.
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Yep, but there's no money to improve infrastructure to inhibit the spread of water born disease. Why is there no money for infrastructure improvement? You can, justifiably, point your finger at the IMF and it's continued use of debt relief policies which continue to cripple developing country's abilities to move forward in positive progress.
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ONCE AGAIN: WHARE IS THE SMOKING GUN? WHERE IS ANYTHING THAT TIES TOGETHER THIS CONSPIRACY YOU CLAIM EXISTS. YOU KEEP RAMBLING ON ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS, SOME VALID, MOST NONSENSICAL, BUT AT NO POINT DO YOU SUPPORT ANY OF YOUR CONSPIRACY CLAIMS.
If you want to keep responding to my questions, you're welcome to, but at some point I'd think you'd like to keep some of these beliefs tightly under wraps...
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Are you looking for written evidence which would indict a group, or individual with ties to the NWO? Pretty hard to find documented evidence tying this all together, that's why it's a conspiracy and the majority of people aren't familiar with its claims. There's evidence all around of the power structure which controls political and economic movement in our world. You just have to open your eyes and identify the hypocrisy for what it is. I can't do that for you. I'd just like to add that I don't understand your last sentence. Why should I keep it under wraps?
mickydaniels:
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I just wish there were paragraphs in Seth's replies. And the posting of more conspiracies, particularly the biblical ones.
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I'll work on the paragraph's.
Daniel and Revelation are the two primary books of the Bible dealing with end time prophecy. Basically, Daniel points out the four major kingdoms that have ruled up til now. Starting with Babylon, then Medo-Persia, Greece, and finally Pagan Rome. It identifies the Papal power and it's role in the end times. In Daniel a 2300 year prophecy is given which scholarly validates the truth of Jesus Christ as the Messiah, as well as tying it into a linear timeline which tells of the future events that will lead up to the return of God to this planet. The Book of Revelation further explains the end times and identifies the antichrist, the remnant of true believers, and what will happen to both. It's the biggest conspiracy you could ever imagine. I'll diverge further, I'll probably make another thread about it if there's enough interest. I guess it would be called a Bible study so if any of you are up for that then I'd love to.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-03-2009, 09:15 PM
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#3
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John Lennon in '67
Fox 6 is offline
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
Round 2, huh.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-04-2009, 12:36 AM
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Devourer of Worlds
Professor S is offline
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
The rise of the middle class: You're splitting hairs and making a diseingenous argument. You say that the middle class is smaller than I claim, when what I claimed was that in the last 100 - 150 years it went from ZERO in even westernized nations to a considerable economic force, millions in number. Why would this powerful organization (NWO) allow any of this? Isn't the severe disparity of wealth across the globe that was in place for thousands of years more advantageous than a growing middle class in China and India and an established on in most Westernized nations? I ask again: HOW DOES THE CREATION OF A MIDDLE CLASS HELP THE CONSPIRATORS? After all, it happened under their watch, and since they are so powerful, either it was their idea, OR THEY FAILED.
Flouride and Creating Menatlly Crippled Populace:
1) It was against almost all eugenics proponents at the turn of the century, which is part of the conspiracy you claim, to promote the care and support of the mentally rertarded. They supported euthenasia. The holocaust started with one mentally retarded baby being killed. The idea of creating a mass of the mentally handicapped is counter to most documented history concerning eugenics. Here is some interesting opinion from the leaders of the movement, and notice the repeated use of the word "sterilization":
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffma...y/Eugenics.htm
2) Creating a mentally crippled populace doesn't help a conspiracy, it creates a populace that must be supported and is useless to a power elites goals. Have you ever noticed the resources needed to care for someone with autism? The skilled manpower? The money? Wow, maybe this is a part of a conspiracy to create more skilled middle class workers to care for them... whoops!
Once again: HOW DOES THIS HELP THEM? Thew elites need a compliant society, not one that can't function without aid.
Vitamin D: You asked how I included Vitmain D? YOU DID. In the post you made on Jan 1st. And on this point you seemed to ramble from Sunscreen to the dairy industry and I'm surprised cattle mutilations by Chupacabras didn't make it in there with the stream of consciousness word association you played in the entire section regarding sunscreen.
Also, if the argument is to create cancer, why did they go to such crazy ends to kill people by creating cancer in such expensive and complicated ways when disease created by malnutrition, poor healthcare and sanitary conditions is nnot only faster and cheaper but was commonplace a hundred years ago? Why allow anti-biotics to becomes cheap and mainstream? Why allow TOILETS to exist when people used to just throw chamber pots out in the street? Why allow for the creation of pesticides when these animals did more to spread death than anything in human history? Why allow medicare and Canadian healthcare systems that provide it for a minimal cost paid for by taxes by the very elites you claim are a part of this conspiracy?
Instead they invented sunscreen, which just happens to keep people FROM getting cancer, and they still put vitamin D as a supplement in Milk, which I'm sure you don't drink as it has nono-bots or some shit. Seth, you say you take a Vitamin D supplement, but what if they taint that with preservatives and binders as well. MAYBE YOU'RE ONE OF THE POD PEOPLE.... RUN!!
Vaccines: Way to back track. This is why having a discussion is so difficult with you. You quickly try and turn the suncreen discussion tot he dairy industry when that argument is discovered to lack any logical merit, and now you say you never said vaccines didn't save lives. This is a conceit.
1) Your argument is that part of the conspiracy is to reduce the population.
2) Vaccines are a part of the conspiracy in your own arguments.
Then you claim you never stated they don't save lives. So, either they are a part of the conspiracy and the conspracy has failed, or they haven't saved lives, which you already admit they have. So which one is it? If its to make a country of retards, please see my above reponse of how a society of mentally handicapped is against the eugenics/fabian movement and in the end would create a burden, not a boon, to any world power conspiracy. Either way, its bullshit.
And the reason why there are still traces of this preservative is for the same reason almost every candy bar states "may contain peanuts". Its the equipment, not the ingredients.
As for mercury, I agree thats its dangerous, so why did they allow this HUGE movement in the 50's and 60's to educate people about the dangers of mercury, a metal that children used to hold in their hands in science classes. If so many people touched it, why educate them on it when allowing to continue in the hat making (The Mad Hatter is based on this) and other proceses when allowing it to continue would serve them so much better?
But all of this brings us to our last section:
Evidence is hard to find No shit. This is a conspiracy that has run for hundreds of years, across generations, and there has never been a single document detailing it, not a single member of it that has defected (and lived!), and not a single shred of real evidence that ties any of the information you've posted together. Even with HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of true believers and reserachers desperately trying to prove the conspiracy and the two decades of information technology and flattened media access, NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO PROVE A DAMN THING. I wonder why that is?
Seth, all you've done is post various bits of history, selectively chosen, some junk and real science in close proximity to each other and said that its a conspiracy. I could continue with this discussion, but you've repeated this same trend three times now and there really is no point. I feel I've made my point sufficiently.
Many bad things have happened in the world, but the fact that they've happened doesn't mean that they're related, and you've done nothing to prove that the information you've posted (that which is valid) are anything more than unrelated incidences over hundreds of years with different individuals and political leaders involved. Your belief in this conspiracy is solely based on your own faith that it exists. It is a religion, and the really sad part is that it's a religion that assumes everyone is trying to screw you and good people are powerless before them.
Except for YOU though, as you're one of the few to see through all the logical arguments and lack of evidence to see the unseen TRUTH. Thats called narcissism, Seth.
And the reason why I suggested you not post any more of these ideas is because you're coming off a bit unhinged. You have to admit that your theories are not accepted by the majority of the populace on a serious level. They make a fun novel or movie, but when such fiction creeps into sopmeone's reality, it doesn't look good to say the least.
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Last edited by Professor S : 01-04-2009 at 10:25 AM.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-04-2009, 05:22 PM
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#5
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Knight
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
Wow.  I think this has gotten a little bit off subject.
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Of my weaknesses I'm desperately aware. Do I even dare to repent again? Why (would you) endure the pain?
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-05-2009, 04:31 AM
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HockeyHockeyHockeyHockey
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
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Originally Posted by Fyacin
Wow.  I think this has gotten a little bit off subject.
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Stay on topic please, Fyacin.
This is the thread about New World Orders. I think they plan to do something with shoes.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-05-2009, 05:58 AM
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#7
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Marquis
Nighthawk is offline
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
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Originally Posted by Dylflon
Stay on topic please, Fyacin.
This is the thread about New World Orders. I think they plan to do something with shoes.
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stink bombs?
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-05-2009, 08:53 AM
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#8
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Devourer of Worlds
Professor S is offline
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
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Originally Posted by Dylflon
Stay on topic please, Fyacin.
This is the thread about New World Orders. I think they plan to do something with shoes.
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Well, the topic changed, as many topics do over time. Its nothing new.
Back to your point about the legality of the war:
War over WMD's - I do believe the government thought they would find WMD's in Iraq, the whole world did, but I don't think that was the reason they went to war. I believe the reason was 1) To remove Saddam, who was a true threat to world stability if only because he sat on a ton of oil and was agressive to others that did as well and 2) to establish a true democracy in the middle east.
Illegality - Bush was smart in his war declaration. You'll notice that WMD's were never formally a part of the decision to go to the war, not even in his speech, or maybe I missed it. They talked abotu them a lot, but they never made into the formal declaration to my knowledge. The formal reasons given were more general in terms.
War for Oil - Kind of. I don't think the US wants to take over the area and steal the oil, I think they want to stabalize the world oil supply. That was definitely one of the reasons we went into Iraq both times. Lets face it, everything runs on this shit, and while we're taking steps to try and wean ourselves from oil, just the logistics of our infrastructure and manufacturing alone its going to take decades to make any kind of transition. If much of the world oil supply were suddenly in the hands of someone who worshipped Stalin and Hitler, it could be disasterous on a world wide scale. I don't like the fact that we have to go to war to stabalize resources and I also agree that the western world has created the threat of islamic terror by relying on the politically unstable Middle East for so much of it's energy, but I understand why it has to be done. Call it reluctant acceptance.
My hope is that Iraq will truly become a stable democratic nation, able to stand on its own, and the idea of individual freedom spreads. It always has in history, just as the American Revolution spawned the French Revolution and democracy as whole spread all throughout the western world in a relatively short period of time. We'll have to wait and see, but quite honestly this is the bst chance that region has had to get out of the middle ages since the days before Mohammed.
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01-05-2009, 06:51 PM
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#9
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HockeyHockeyHockeyHockey
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
My main hope about the whole conflict is that we come to a place where we all feel that the end justifies the means.
At the same time, I hope in the future that no country will take it upon themselves to occupy a foreign nation without the backing of the UN.
I do feel that the conduct in that region and in your own country was only satisfactory at its best (by in your own country I mean incarceration of individuals without trial). But what's done is done and all we can do is make the best of it I guess.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush |
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01-05-2009, 07:44 PM
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#10
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wants a yacht
Seth is offline
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
The US has blatantly lied before about it's reasons for going to war. WW1 and the Vietnam war were both sold to Americans on lies. I don't see what's changed.
edit: oh, and now we have suspended freedoms in light of the possible terror threat. Seems a bit nightmarish to me.
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