Free Will vs. Determinism

[Angrist]

I believe in a free will.

Sure, God can know and predict everything, but he doesn't determine it.
Like if a wheatherman gives you a forecast, does that mean he controls the wheather?

God tells us in the bible to choose.
Deuteronomy 30:19,20:
"I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them."

[Fyacin]

Originally Posted by Angrist

I believe in a free will.

Sure, God can know and predict everything, but he doesn't determine it.
Like if a wheatherman gives you a forecast, does that mean he controls the wheather?

God tells us in the bible to choose.
Deuteronomy 30:19,20:
"I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them."

*nods sagely*
Same here.

[Neo]

Free will is an illusion of experience arising from a complex neural system which is really just a glorified marble system governed by the laws of ballistic motion. If a super scientist had a map of your brain and knew where all the electrical impulses were located, he could predict exactly what you are going to say, think, and do for the rest of your life. Providing of course that he had you locked in a room where he could control external stimulus, and discounting quantum effects.

Not that it really matters. You're as free as you need to be. It makes no difference if your choices are predetermined as long as you're not technically being "forced" to make one particular choice over another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_de...ft_Determinism

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Neo

Free will is an illusion of experience arising from a complex neural system which is really just a glorified marble system governed by the laws of ballistic motion. If a super scientist had a map of your brain and knew where all the electrical impulses were located, he could predict exactly what you are going to say, think, and do for the rest of your life. Providing of course that he had you locked in a room where he could control external stimulus, and discounting quantum effects.

Not that it really matters. You're as free as you need to be. It makes no difference if your choices are predetermined as long as you're not technically being "forced" to make one particular choice over another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_de...ft_Determinism

How do you sleep at night?

And isn't discounting quantum effects....cheating?

I'm skeptical you will ever read this thread again, but I had two questions that I really can only direct at you since you're a physics whiz.

One is: what is your take on quantum mechanics? Is it legit or just a lot of theory still.....

The second one (which I never got to ask a physics prof.): My basic understanding is when you have an observer a wave particle collapses...if there was never an observer how would wave partices collapse? That is to say...how are we here.... I think my question is pretty dumb and illustrates my basic lack of understanding of physics, but with Wikipedia as a primary resource I figured maybe you could provide a simple explanation.

[Professor S]

The argument against determinism doesn't even need to involve quantum mechanics, but instead the recognition that a life devoid of stimulus is impossible. Anyone could tell you that if as person was born into a stimulus void that you could determine what they'd do... they'd float in a pool of their own filth with little to no brain activity at all. Stimulus and how we react to it is inherent to the human experience, and it the very building block on conscious thought.

Neo's statement was basically saying that if a human were unconscious, you would depict their every move... another breakthrough discovery published in the scientific journal "Duh".

This is why science should be removed from philosophy, because science demands a static universe where only what we "know" is considerable, to the point that unproven leading theories are treated as fact because the unknown cannot be engaged in scientific conversation. Philosophy is the examination of the unknown, so to use science as a measuring stick for philosophy is like examining an apple to learn about an orange.