Obama and the Birthers

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Jason1

This crap is so stupid, the Republicans need to just remember they had their 8 years of fun and look how they turned out they need to just shut their mouths and stop whining and let the Democrats do it their way and we will all see if we are better off or not after 4 years... we will be

Sometimes I wonder if its possible for things to get worse then they were with Bush. He set the bar so low that it's hard to imagine Obama being any worse.

As for the birth certificate issue, I think anyone who really follows it and really belives that there is some type of conspiracy to it is a lunatic.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

People who deny that as evidence only belive in what they chose to belive in. (Though in the words of morpheus"How do you define real?")

And Bond, I'd agree with the second point you made about it being a smart political play on the part of the democrats to keep it running.. but I think the real problem is the republican party itself. The people who represent their party are hte ones who keep adding flames to the fire of this issue by not taking a stand and saying that Obama is a US citezen. Its like they're scared that they'll lose some support if they just squash it and say the truth.



I like how he makes him admit that this is stupid.

[KillerGremlin]

With a - what was it? 1200 pages? - health bill on the line, it seems like the appropriate time for the major news corporations to focus on non-issues like the insane and minority group, the "Birthers." Instead of talking to Congress about this new proposed bill and having intelligible discussion, the media has decided to fixate on another superfluous Obama-topic. Oh no, Obama uses mustard! Oh no, the Obama family is getting a new dog!

And even the semi-intellectuals get suckered into this. Oh, well the birthers are all republicans. Oh no the republicans are holding Obama down. Oh yeahhh.

SERIOUSLY?! Who gives a shit about these birthers. Why are major news outlets opening up a platform for the birthers to speak? Why are they important? Fuck the news corporations. You think Murdock doesn't know that you're sitting at home sipping on your Big Gulp and getting an erection when the pseudo-news discusses irrelevant topics like birthers. Fuck this. If I was having a conversation with someone about politics and they announced they were a Birhter I would just walk away on the pretense that this person is much less intelligent than me and anything they have to say is not worth hearing. I'm pretty stupid myself. SO IF I CAN COME TO THIS CONCLUSION HOW COME THE NEWS PEOPLE CANT.


http://www.recombinantrecords.net/do...-to-Death.html

[Professor S]

Huxley's version of the future was always far more frightening to me. Oppression from an outside source will always eventually be overthrown, because to rule you inevitably must have the will of the people. Even the Romans understood this and most of their conquered people's were willing participants in the end.

But a society that allows itself to be catered to and taken care of? There is no one to fight that kind of soft oppression when people will hand over their freedom in exchange for reduced personal responsibility. They are the willfully oppressed. The retarded children of the much derided "nanny state".

There is no freedom without responsibility.

But we are WAY off topic.

Personally, I think Birthers for the most part are people who are genuinely concerned about their county's direction under Obama, but they misplace their objections and concentrate on the meaningless and trivial, attacking President Obama as a person, rather than concentrating on countering his ideas and policies. These people are easily dismissed because there is no substance to the argument.

Think of the difference in affect of the two current news items:

The Birthers are overwhelmingly dismissed, even by most conservative talk show hosts, and their cause has gotten them nowhere because they are consumed with Obama Derangement Syndrome (not unlike Sean Hannity's infamous Bush Derangement Syndrome) and attack Pres. Obama the person.

Meanwhile the healthcare town halls are full of people who are passionately arguing policy going line by line through the healthcare plans and the left is reduced to trying to attack the people at the meetings and not their criticisms (Pelosi even claimed people were bringing Swastikas to events, which is utterly untrue and disgusting) and the critics are currently winning the argument.

Ideas will always win if you choose to argue them and not attack the messenger. When you attack the messenger, normally it's a sure sign you're position is weak or deceitful.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Personally, I think Birthers for the most part are people who are genuinely concerned about their county's direction under Obama, but they misplace their objections and concentrate on the meaningless and trivial, attacking President Obama as a person, rather than concentrating on countering his ideas and policies. These people are easily dismissed because there is no substance to the argument.

Think of the difference in affect of the two current news items:

The Birthers are overwhelmingly dismissed, even by most conservative talk show hosts, and their cause has gotten them nowhere because they are consumed with Obama Derangement Syndrome (not unlike Sean Hannity's infamous Bush Derangement Syndrome) and attack Pres. Obama the person.

Meanwhile the healthcare town halls are full of people who are passionately arguing policy going line by line through the healthcare plans and the left is reduced to trying to attack the people at the meetings and not their criticisms (Pelosi even claimed people were bringing Swastikas to events, which is utterly untrue and disgusting) and the critics are currently winning the argument.

Ideas will always win if you choose to argue them and not attack the messenger. When you attack the messenger, normally it's a sure sign you're position is weak or deceitful.

I think this is pretty accurate and sums everything up nicely.

You have to pardon my above post...I am a little bitter.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

If I was having a conversation with someone about politics and they announced they were a Birhter I would just walk away on the pretense that this person is much less intelligent than me and anything they have to say is not worth hearing. I'm pretty stupid myself. SO IF I CAN COME TO THIS CONCLUSION HOW COME THE NEWS PEOPLE CANT.

To me, this goes back to who is making this news legitamate. There's been tons of conspiracy theories in history, including a big one that's about to hit its 8 year anneversary. If our elected officials would just completly dismiss this subject as they did 9-11, then the story would no longer be legit, and it would no longer be played on anything but extreme conservative radio talkshows.

By polititans acknowleging this and not saying confidently that they belive that he's elgible to be president of the united states.. they are allowing this to get more play then it should.