President Obama Healthcare Speech

[Bond]

The bill was proposed by Max Baucus, a Democrat from Montana. Voting against your own party's bill with a 60-seat majority would be quite interesting.

[Vampyr]

It's hard to say without reading the actual bill, but this bill sounds like it sucks.

Not carrying insurance could result in a steep fine, as much as $3,800 per family, or $950 for an individual. People who can't afford their premiums would be exempted from the fine.

What the hell?

1. I'm all for making people have health insurance...but only through taxes that fund a pubic option - not forcing them to give money to for-profit organizations.

2. A fine if you don't pay, but only for people who could afford to pay? First of all, this bill makes mention of people who can't afford premiums. I thought our health care reform was supposed to make sure EVERYONE can have health insurance. According to this language, there will still be a group of people who just don't have health insurance.

3. How do they calculate if you "can't afford the premiums"? Shouldn't this be an individual's decision? This scare's me quit a bit, since it's the government who decides how much a family can contribute to paying for someone's college, and they grossly overestimate that. I don't expect them to be any more lenient on this.

They need to stop trying compromise on this. By trying to be too moderate they are compromising themselves into a bill which will only change the way we do things, and not necessarily improve them by any significant amount. It's not worth changing something this complex unless you're actually going to take a big step forward. This is expensive lateral movement at best, and expensive downward movement at worst.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Bond

The bill was proposed by Max Baucus, a Democrat from Montana. Voting against your own party's bill with a 60-seat majority would be quite interesting.

Well its a double edged sword with democrats, the party is split. If they included the public option it would be daring the "conservative democrats" to vote against it, and with it not including the public option it is daring the "progressive democrats" to vote against it... So it is quiite interesting.

To me, the most important thing.. is that no matter what republicans will vote against it. So I agree with Vamp, they need to stop compromising on this bill.. As I posted earlier in the thread, 77% of people are in favor of the public option on average between the two polls. They should just do what the people want instead of bowing down to the minority.

We need campaign finance reform more then anything..

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

As I posted earlier in the thread, 77% of people are in favor of the public option on average between the two polls.

Keep in mind those numbers reflect whether or not people favor a public option, not necessarily any public option plan we've seen or that has been presented. These polls examione people's openess to the idea/concept, not the reality.

IMO the current climate reflect's people's reaction to practical application of that idea/concept.

[TheGame]

That'll circle us back to a debate about why things are changing. I'll agree with you on the first sentance of what you wrote.. But I don't think its "the people" who are killing or watering down healthcare reform, its the people who are paying the politicians who are killing and watering it down.

[Professor S]

Or it could be all the raucus town hall meetings and the thousands that showed up at the Capital over the weekend to protest... unless you think they're all employees of the healthcare companies and pharma companies (most that now support a public option, for the record).

But thats a difference of opinion and as you said, we'd be retreading old arguments.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Or it could be all the raucus town hall meetings and the thousands that showed up at the Capital over the weekend to protest... unless you think they're all employees of the healthcare companies and pharma companies (most that now support a public option, for the record).

But thats a difference of opinion and as you said, we'd be retreading old arguments.

I think that those outbursts at townhalls, and the 9-12 people are a very small and loud minority.

I'd really hope that this isn't a big portion of americans, or even a big part of the republican party..



(Read the guy's sign in the part at 3:03-3:19)

[KillerGremlin]

I'm certainly not qualified to make political discussion concerning Socialism vs. Capitalism (I mean I have some idea...) but holy fuck these people are morons:



There are good arguments about having concern for socialized health care, but these people are a mindless mob. What happened to mobs who were passionate for their cause and loved what they are fighting for? This is just a mob that has hatred towards Obama. You can't reach goals if you platform on hate and don't love the cause you are fighting for.

On a lighter note, many of these people look like they would be right at home at Walmart.