What do you think happens after death?

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

Gravity is a theory. Gravity is under current revision as we look for the Higgs boson (the "God particle) with the Large Hadron Collider. Gravity is a weak force (in fact the weakest I believe), and the point of finding the Higgs bosons is to account for the disparities in forces. If you want to think about how weak gravity is....stick a magnet to your fridge and watch it defy Earth's gravity. Pretty neat.

You have a misunderstanding of the difference between a scientific fact, law, and theory. A scientific fact is ANY observeable occurance. A scientific fact does not need an explination, its just something that we can observe. A scientific theory is an explination of HOW that occurance was created, or what causes that natural occurance, and in some cases just an explanation of how the occurance works. A scientific law is the math that we observe to be behind a natural occurance.

Check this out on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti...heory_and_fact

I was actually kinda suprised to find this article this morning. But I think it helps put this whole debate in perspective and explains my point.

The theory is just the explanation. A theory, as well thought out as it can be, cannot be proven to be true in all circumstances, and/or cannot be observed.

[TheGame]

Take Christianity: if Jesus did come down to Earth, then the billions of people who have a collective tingling for some divine creator but are not Christian are still going to burn in Hell.

http://thecrazypastor.wordpress.com/...her-religions/

[Professor S]

A few things:

1) Yes, I am deist, or more accurately, a Christ agnostic.

2) Yes, I realize there are many Gods, but it all falls under a unifying paranormal deity concept shared across the world for millenia. As to what god falls under that concept, well, take your pick. As for collective unconscious (etc.), well, that's a theory and one that is no more valid than a belief in the existence of God.

3) Adding God into science: You don't add God into scientific experimentation. How do you add an unporvable theory/idea? It's as impossible as proving God's existence. Instead, you let the idea of God as the alternative drive you to find further truth, instead of eliminating the possibility and you're left with assuming flawed and abused theories are facts because there happens to be no scientific alternative. God as an alternative pushes further discover and clarification. Removing him leads to scientific ignorance, IMO.

4) Evolutionary theory in it's totality is not fact. Sorry, it's not. Within a species is it fact? I'd say so. The problem and abuse comes when unscientific assumtions and extrapolations are made that shoe-horn evolution as fact across species, which is still unproven. Example: Bacteria. We know that aggressive use of anti-biotics leads to evolution within the species or even genus if you want to stretch it, making the bacteria resistant to treatment. The problem is that there is no proof that these mutations have mutated bacteria into something beyond bacteria. Maybe cross species evolution is impossible to prove. Okay... so is the existence of God. Pick your belief.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by TheGame

http://thecrazypastor.wordpress.com/...her-religions/

I've heard similar interpretations on the subject. My point was to challenge Prof S' observation on the commonality of a divine creator among humans. You also have to realize what the Bible and Scripture says differs from what organized religion practices. I assure you Muslims and Catholics aren't as tolerant. I mean look at the Middle East, those guys have been blowing each other up for thousands of years.

Originally Posted by TheGame

You have a misunderstanding of the difference between a scientific fact, law, and theory. A scientific fact is ANY observeable occurance. A scientific fact does not need an explination, its just something that we can observe. A scientific theory is an explination of HOW that occurance was created, or what causes that natural occurance, and in some cases just an explanation of how the occurance works. A scientific law is the math that we observe to be behind a natural occurance.

Check this out on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti...heory_and_fact

I was actually kinda suprised to find this article this morning. But I think it helps put this whole debate in perspective and explains my point.

The theory is just the explanation. A theory, as well thought out as it can be, cannot be proven to be true in all circumstances, and/or cannot be observed.

Touche. I always overcomplicated gravity, I sometimes forget it is just the tendency for two objects with mass to pull towards each other.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Professor S

4) Evolutionary theory in it's totality is not fact. Sorry, it's not. Within a species is it fact? I'd say so. The problem and abuse comes when unscientific assumtions and extrapolations are made that shoe-horn evolution as fact across species, which is still unproven. Example: Bacteria. We know that aggressive use of anti-biotics leads to evolution within the species or even genus if you want to stretch it, making the bacteria resistant to treatment. The problem is that there is no proof that these mutations have mutated bacteria into something beyond bacteria. Maybe cross species evolution is impossible to prove. Okay... so is the existence of God. Pick your belief.

I believe in the holy ham sandwich...which sounds very yummy right about now.




So new question for everyone who believes in an afterlife....where does your conscious go when you die? Does it go somewhere, or is it dependent on body and you have some sort of external soul out there.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

So new question for everyone who believes in an afterlife....where does your conscious go when you die? Does it go somewhere, or is it dependent on body and you have some sort of external soul out there.

No idea, but I sort of like the idea of non-local consciousness - that when we die our consciousness is released from our body and spreads infinitely across the universe. It sounds very harmonious to me.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I believe in the holy ham sandwich...which sounds very yummy right about now.

mmmm.... sacrilicious...

So new question for everyone who believes in an afterlife....where does your conscious go when you die? Does it go somewhere, or is it dependent on body and you have some sort of external soul out there.

Well, I've had experiences with ghosts*, so I think at least some of them remain locally. To me, that is a terribly frightening prospect for my immortal consciousness/soul.

*I don't care to convince anyone else that they are real. Hell, if I didn't have the experiences I've had, with witnesses no less, I would think I was crazy too.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Well, I've had experiences with ghosts*, so I think at least some of them remain locally. To me, that is a terribly frightening prospect for my immortal consciousness/soul.

*I don't care to convince anyone else that they are real. Hell, if I didn't have the experiences I've had, with witnesses no less, I would think I was crazy too.

Do tell, how was the experience? Was it a friendly haunting?
You're not the first person I have heard say they have seen ghosts.

[Professor S]

My parent's house is haunted. It's been haunted by a woman at least for as long as I can remember. I've seen her 3 times in my life, and four of my friends ran into her once and those who were there will not come back.

First incident
- She's friendly, if disappearing for a long time is friendly, but gets "active" when people she doesn't know are in the house.
- Active: footsteps on the third floor and up and down the stairs, opening of closed doors on the third floor, full body apparitions.
- The incident: My parents were away and four of my friends were staying over to go to a golf outing the next day. Basically, the ghost was running laps up and down the stairs all night, depressed the end as if someone was climbing in, of the bed and one of my friends saw her in the doorway. Keep in mind I had not mentioned anything about her to them before any of this happened. They won't come back.

Second incident
- There is an upper body apparition of a colonial soldier that wanders the streets of my home town. Many have seen him, and I was lucky enough to spot him once turning into my driveway.

Third and only bad incident
- After my grandmother died, I lived at her house while my parents were in the midst of selling the property, and that took a long time. I had always felt "watched" in the house from the time I moved in, but didn't really think much of it. At moist I thought it was just another quiet haunting. Then doors started opening... and closing... by themselves while I watched. I don;t mean they creaked open, I mean the opened quickly and stopped on a dime, and sometimes slammed shut. When I started seeing my current wife is when things got bad. We had sex all over that house, and that's when things started to bang around randomly in the house and the cold spots started.
- The final straw was when I turn out the lights to go to bed after my then girlfriend left, and there were four LOUD bangs moving left to right, it felt like someone was next to my bed on the right hand side, and then a deafening SCREAM in my right ear, but the scream was more like radio static of a scream. I packed up my shit and left that night, and never came back. Even if it was my grandmother... FUCK THAT.

A little background about the area: I grew up near Chadds Ford, PA. It's a area near the Brandywine Battlefield (Revolutionary war), but there were battles all over that area including several bloody skirmishes in my home town of Thornbury Township. You can find random cannons in the woods if you look hard enough. This has always been my only explanation for the high occurence of hauntings in the area.

I currently live in Mount Penn, PA (near Reading) and my house is "clean", to quote the midget from Poltergeist. The first time I've ever lived in a house without a presence.

[KillerGremlin]

Hmmm...interesting. If any of that stuff happened to me I'd freak the fuck out.

I've always thought these experiences are double-edged sword. On one hand you have ACTUAL PROOF of something phenomenal. That would certainly change how I feel about life. On the other hand you have to live with the fear of the encounters for the rest of your life.

I've always wanted to do some serious research on the documented Exorcism cases. It's hard though because much of it gets shot down hard by psychology: and much of it should. There's a huge difference between being possessed or having dementia or psychosis.