Reconciling the American Dream with the Least Among Us

[Teuthida]

EDIT: Prof nailed it with "equal opportunity under the law."

I always considered the American Dream to be that an individual can achieve their goals through hard work no matter their background. If you want something bad enough, and study/practice/do whatever it takes, you can make it. Now, how long this take is another matter. For a poor older immigrant it might be very hard, but their offspring would have just as much chance as anyone else. Just need the drive.

Like your example Bond, I'm sure there are plenty of folks in your situation without the cushy fallback. They'll make sure their grades don't decline or become a drunkard as you say. They can't afford to not succeed. Chances are they have a job paying their way through college and law school.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I'm not getting into this too much, as Bond and I have already talked about it to an extent, but the American Dream is bullshit. Plain and simple.

If you honestly believe the majority of rich people are rich because they were dedicated and hard working, that's bullshit too. Most of the rich people you know and hear about go from rags to riches sure, but the majority of them don't. Those who get rich stay that way, as well as their descendants.

And while we're here look up class mobility in the united states. Which by the way has been on a steady decline since 1970, and only managed to stabilize, yet not increase in the last decade.

Rising cost of tuition, and absolute dependency on a college degree have really fucked things up when it comes to the american dream.

Generation after Generation we vote those into power over our laws and government who are the people of the upper class, and they make the decisions for us. No one else sees a problem in that? Probably not.

This shit wont change until people wake the fuck up and realize what's actually important at the end of the day.

Unfortunately the nation isn't moving towards anything that resembles the Star Trek universe and it probably never will, so hey whatever. I fully look for someone to blow the USA up in the next 50-100 years anyway.

I know Prof is going to have something to say about this, and I'm going to go ahead an throw out that we clearly had vastly different sociology professors.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

I know Prof is going to have something to say about this, and I'm going to go ahead an throw out that we clearly had vastly different sociology professors.

Actually my Sociological Foundations of Education teacher was a open communist. He even included communism as part of his curriculum. And yes, he HATED me because I dared to challenge him. My only A- of my entire grad school experience and I only did that well because I just started to repeat his lectures back to him in my papers. Head of the department and a complete pompous ignoramous.

As for you argument, I empathize with much of it, especially the reality that the world is unfair has gotten exceedingly less fair as we've meddled with social experimentation. I am a firm believer that most of our tax code does more to maintain the status quo than help overturn it.

These failures do not erase the successes, though, and does not remove the fact that America is possibly the greatest example of a government philosophy allowing the poor/lower classes to gain wealth and success and climb up the rungs of society. Hell, my father was one of 9 children and they grew up with a communal sink and an outhouse. He and my mom currently lives in a Victorian he restored over 30 years that is now worth over $1 million. No one gave it to him. He made it happen, and there were plenty of tough times along the way. I call 1991 recession the Tuna Casserole Year...

It wasn't that long ago that the poor in the civilized world could never achieve simply because of their birth right or because they languished under a totalitarian regime. Hell, the aristocracy is still a real social structure in Britain. I could feel it in the mere two weeks I was in Scotland and Ireland (moreso Scotland). America is still one of the few places on earth where someone can achieve fame and fortune through their own merit and hard work. Just ask Oprah. But as with anything, there are no guarantees. If anyone wants guarantees they can get a welfare check at the first of every month.

But if you want to believe the American Dream is a myth, please go right ahead. I will gladly help myself to your piece of the pie.