Citizenship at Birth

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Professor S

At the very most I think this is the least important part of immigration debate.

This is my opinion. This isn't the root problem. Fix illegal immigration, and the issue all but disappears.

Question: If citizenship isn't granted simply when you're born here, what are the criteria?

[Typhoid]

The entire problem is with illegal immigration.
If you stop people from illegally entering your country, then you wouldn't need to fix the birth right.

It just seems like a shitty solution. A very shitty solution.

"We still have many people coming into our country illegally, giving birth to a child [whether intentional or not] and that child is a US citizen. How can we fix this?"

"Well...we can make it so that anyone born here isn't a citizen."

"Even children of people who are citizens, or legally move here?"

"Yes. That'll get those damn Mexicans to stop coming here."

"Wait, why can't we just fix immigration instead of removing everyones right to be a citizen because of a handful [in the scheme of things] of people?"


If you don't want people going illegally to the country, stop them from entering. Don't remove 1 of the incentives.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

If you don't want people going illegally to the country, stop them from entering. Don't remove 1 of the incentives.

How are we supposed to stop it though? I agree that stopping them is a bigger problem, but it's not as easy as removing incentives. We're a huge county bordering two other huge countries with two huge coastlines. There is no way that every single inch of the border can be watched 24/7. So no matter how you slice it, illegals ARE going to get in. So how things are managed on our land once they get here is just as important as trying to stop them.

[Typhoid]

There is no way that every single inch of the border can be watched 24/7.

I'd argue that all that needs to be watched is obviously the southern US. I mean, that's honestly all this is about - Mexicans and Cubans getting into the US illegally. No [not many, at least] Canadians would be illegally defecting to the US to have a child in order for American healthcare. I think your northern border is essentially safe in that aspect.

I'd also argue no illegal immigrants should be coming from Asia, or overseas by large boat or crate. If they are - that's up to the port authority to check each shipment to make sure that A) There are no people inside it for whatever reason and B) He's doing his job. Shipments should be checked.

This just leaves us with the border directly above Mexico, and the coastal waters of the gulf.

Now, It wouldn't be hard for the US to establish cameras, stations, and employ people to watch that border. Afterall, it does create more jobs, aswell. Two birds.

Then that leaves us with people who float over from Cuba, which I will agree, would be hard to deal with.

I just think in principle it's stupid to remove the citizenship to a person born there. Regardless if the parents got there illegally, the child had nothing to do with that. The child was born inside of your borders, therefore being the only place that child has ever been, making that child [in this case] American.

"How do we stop people from illegally trafficiking cocaine into the US without actually having to put in effort to catch the people committing the crimes?"
"Uhh...make it....legal to traffick?"

[Professor S]

I don't think anyone is talking about removing citizenship, only stopping the practices of granting it to non-citizen born children because they were born in the US. And I have to agree that there is no way to watch or protect the US border 24/7.

I used to be a proponent of amnesty, but with how minimum wage has become a living wage and continued expansion of welfare benefits/entitlements I don't think its realistic anymore if we don't want the system to collapse on itself once 15 million illegals are given citizenship and guaranteed those entitlements.

In the end, that leaves a guest worker option as the only real solution. and that is just a modern version of a class based labor system. Ugh.

[TheGame]

It's not like the US hasn't been trying for ages to stop people from crossing that border.. And they have been trying to do it by force without getting rid of any of the incentives for someone to come across that line. I'm open to a different approach.

Also, even if there was some new berlin wall built down there with a millitary post every half mile to stop people from going over the border by land, people WILL find a way to go by sea. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Also, even if there was some new berlin wall built down there with a millitary post every half mile to stop people from going over the border by land, people WILL find a way to go by sea.

That's no excuse to punish the children born in the country because their parents broke the law. The children did nothing wrong. It's not their fault.

And yes, I do understand that removing that will take away incentive for poor families to go there - but it really spreads a horrible image about the country as a whole.

The fact is, I honestly don't think the vast majority of people are having kids in the US because of health care [considering they will most likely be from poor countries, and have no way to pay for it anyways, but I'm not saying it isn't a factor] - rather are going there because their country blows so much in comparison that they want to start a new life, in a new place, with new opportunity. You know, the whole idea that North America was practically founded on.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

That's no excuse to punish the children born in the country because their parents broke the law. The children did nothing wrong. It's not their fault.

And yes, I do understand that removing that will take away incentive for poor families to go there - but it really spreads a horrible image about the country as a whole.

The fact is, I honestly don't think the vast majority of people are having kids in the US because of health care [considering they will most likely be from poor countries, and have no way to pay for it anyways, but I'm not saying it isn't a factor] - rather are going there because their country blows so much in comparison that they want to start a new life, in a new place, with new opportunity. You know, the whole idea that North America was practically founded on.

So in your opinion, is illegal immigration even an issue? Because that post makes it sound like you don't really want it to stop, or like you're unwilling to take the proper steps to prevent it.