Bin Laden Dead

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I regret going to college at 18. I'm glad I did in the long run, and I think ultimately I would have decided to attend, but I could have gained some valuable life experience working for 2 years instead of failing out of and hating engineering. I would guess-timate that about 3 out of 4 of my friends ended up altering their path during college. I would guess that about 2 out of 4 of my friends made DRAMATIC life changes. By dramatic I mean: dropping out of college, doing a total major change, doing a total college change.

...

I happen to be in that boat too, with a largely useless (due to flooded market) psychology degree. Fortunately, I am passionate about psychology, and am passionate enough about what I learned in college to feel like I got something meaningful out of my education. I was also lucky enough to work at two real jobs during my college years, so I have real world work experience.

A debate about college and how necessary it is is great.

But it infuriates me when someone who goes to college, gets their degree, ends up getting a good job, then ends up telling everyone that college is worthless for most people and that you probably shouldn't go.

What??? Why is it you feel you can successfully navigate the system of going to college at age 18 and come out better on the other side, but that most people can not?

In this market, like it or not, a college degree is required for most decent paying jobs. Not all, I have personally seen many good ones that don't. But the vast majority do. And sure, you could be the next college drop-out billionaire. You could also be the next Michael Jordan. But I wouldn't bet on it.

I find it dangerous to tell high school kids that college is unnecessary, only to have them find out in five years time that not having a degree blocks tons of doors, and at which point it is likely FAR more difficult to go start college for any number of reasons (debt, marriage, kids, etc.). Give them the same chance you had to go to college when it is logistically easiest, and then let them figure it out just like you did whether it is right for them.

If you want to change the system, fine, but don't ask high school kids to take the brunt of the risk to change the system for you.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by manasecret

A debate about college and how necessary it is is great.

But it infuriates me when someone who goes to college, gets their degree, ends up getting a good job, then ends up telling everyone that college is worthless for most people and that you probably shouldn't go.

What???

In this market, like it or not, a college degree is required for most decent paying jobs. Not all, I have personally seen many good ones that don't. But most. And sure, you could be the next college drop-out billionaire. You could also be the next Michael Jordan. But I wouldn't bet on it.

I find it dangerous to tell high school kids that college is unnecessary, only to have them find out in five years time that not having a degree blocks tons of doors, and at which point it is likely FAR more difficult to go start college for any number of reasons (debt, marriage, kids, etc.).

If you want to change the system, fine, but don't ask high school kids to take the brunt of the risk to change the system for you.

That's fine and ethical and all, but what if we turn it around:

What if high school kids genuinely don't want to go to college, and we push them into it. I mean, all I am saying is their are two sides to this coin.

But unfortunately you are right...a lot of jobs require college degrees. I blame part of this partially on academia. I believe many people in a hiring position use a college degree as a redundancy check or as a quick screening method. Some jobs do require a degree though: doctors, engineers, etc.

I know I said in my previous post that most people should not go to college. Let me amend that by saying: most people should not rush to make the decision to run to college. Most people should let it stew for a year or two. I'm living proof of that.

In my experience high schools push a one-sided view: college or failure. High schools should be more open-minded and offer multiple paths and options to youth. And this is where we get into total education reform. Starting at the bottom, instead of having mandatory math and science classes, we could let people pursue natural interests early on. If the education system was reformed kids might know earlier on what they want to do instead of taking "crash course in college 101" at age 18 because they were stuck in a shitty system that essentially pigeon-holes everyone into a set of narrow expectations and tells them what makes them smart or stupid.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

That's fine and ethical and all, but what if we turn it around:

What if high school kids genuinely don't want to go to college, and we push them into it. I mean, all I am saying is their are two sides to this coin.

Then they continue on to get a job as if they had never gone to college, perhaps with some debt, but also with knowledge of the college system that they can use to better decide if they want to go back later.

I think that's the far better option then finding out later you need a degree, but that's it's much harder to go back and get one because you've now established your life.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by manasecret

A debate about college and how necessary it is is great.

But it infuriates me when someone who goes to college, gets their degree, ends up getting a good job, then ends up telling everyone that college is worthless for most people and that you probably shouldn't go.

What??? Why is it you feel you can successfully navigate the system of going to college at age 18 and come out better on the other side, but that most people can not?.

You confusing the value of a degree with the value of the education in the real world. I don't think anyone is arguing that a degree isn't valuable, in that is helps you get a decent job (something that is proving less and less true), or doesn't have perceived value with employers. In the current system, a college degree is necessary, but what we're arguing against is the current system and not the value of its outcomes.

Talk to most HR professionals and ask them about how they view college degrees, and most would answer "It shows that you can start something and finish it."

I'm still paying back school loans for THAT? The government gave me tax-payer subsidized grants for THAT? I could have shown that with an internship or apprenticeship and saved about $100,000. And the sad fact is that no one can understand this until after they graduate and enter the work force because the ONLY narrative offered in grade-school is "YOU MUST GO TO COLLEGE OR YOU ARE A FAILURE."

That is a lie, and an insidious one.