Occupy Wallstreet

[Bond]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

What I’d ultimately like to see:

• Money being removed from politics.
• Corporate lobbying power diminished.
• An end to corporate personhood.
• Adjust average hourly earnings for inflation (hasn’t increased in 50 years).
• Better hiring incentives and significant consequences for firing workers while raising executive pay.
• Harsher punishments for white collar crime (with great power comes great responsibility, not impunity).
• Limits on executive bonuses, raises, and incomes.
• A complete audit of the Federal Reserve.
• Revelation of the secret interpretation of the Patriot Act and/or its abolishment.
• Legislative/Congressional reform (takes too long to pass important legislation).
• Demilitarization of America’s police forces.
• Sensible reforms to the drug war.

Good read about the financial side of concerns:

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-...t-2011-10?op=1

Removing money from politics is an interesting suggestion ... it would certainly piss off the unions and major corporations ... other than that, I'm not sure what effect it would have on our current political system. It's worth noting that the consequential parts of McCain-Feingold were struck down by the Surpeme Court, so I'm not sure how far any of this reform would go.

What do you mean by adjusting the average hourly wage for inflation? Do you mean adjusting the minimum wage? The average hourly wage has increased over the past decades if you reference the chart I posted above. The increases are measured in real terms as well, so that nullifies inflation.

[Professor S]

[Fox 6]

The occupy protester camp in Vancouver reportedly has a bad rat infestation. Also its getting a lot colder out now and wet too. Maybe that'll teach them to occupy a job instead

[Typhoid]

The occupy protester camp in Vancouver reportedly has a bad rat infestation

Good. They don't have a reason to be there anyways. We're not in the US. I hope those idiots freeze.


Personally, i think all of these Occupy Wall Street douchebags should occupy a library, and read up on how to actually stir social and political change, rather than being smelly, obnoxious jobless weirdos. Get educated, get a plan, take proper steps.

And on the other hand, the business owners getting all "well maybe I'll just close my business down and then fire 150 people. Let's see what that does." Very fucking mature, rich Dempublicrats. "If you raise my taxes, I'll quit!".

That is the new American way. Fuck all that "American ingenuity and stick-to-it-ivness". Now it's good 'ol fashioned "American taking your ball and going home."

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

And on the other hand, the business owners getting all "well maybe I'll just close my business down and then fire 150 people. Let's see what that does." Very fucking mature, rich Dempublicrats. "If you raise my taxes, I'll quit!".

That is the new American way. Fuck all that "American ingenuity and stick-to-it-ivness". Now it's good 'ol fashioned "American taking your ball and going home."

At least you're always fair when talking about America

Businesses look at every expenditure as a cost. Taxes are simply another line item that needs to be accounted for. If you raise taxes on a business they are left with only a few ways to make up the loss:

1) Increase the cost of their product or service
2) Reduce profits to owners/investors
3) Reduce compensation to employees or reduce unneeded employment

The third option will always be preferred because 1 and 2 can be disastrous for a company (just ask NetFlix and Bank of America). Remove emotion from the equation. Businesses employ for one reason: They need the employee to maximize their profit potential. Any other reason is nonsensical and irrelevant because it is not based in reality.

So we're left with a simple choice: Govern out of anger, fear, and populist policies that do more damage to our economy... or work with reality and help job creators instead of attacking them publicly and through policy.

And for the record, Canada has a lower corporate tax rate than the US, and I believe they are looking to lower it further, but you'd know better than I.

[Typhoid]

Pre edit edit: In all seriousness, don't take me the wrong way. I'm just attempting to have a face-to-face conversation over text, not start some argument or derail a thread or anything.

At least you're always fair when talking about America

You take me far too seriously when I say ridiculous things, then don't take me seriously at all when I say things that should have worth and value.

I seriously do think the Occupy _____ is a waste of time. If those people want change, educate themselves. Take proper steps, you know.

And for the record, Canada has a lower corporate tax rate than the US, and I believe they are looking to lower it further, but you'd know better than I.

What I simply meant was that the Occupy Vancouver/Toronto started because of Occupy Wall Street. What harms you doesn't [necessarily] directly effect us in the same way. This is why our dollar has gained on the US dollar, and surpassed it a number of times. Albeit by pennies, but still. If we were directly tied, our dollar would have stayed well-below the American dollar. Instead we've constantly been creeping up to parity, and [slightly] surpassing it.

I'm not oblivious to the fact that our countries are indeed symbiotic, at least on our end - however what disturbs me is that the people occupying areas in Canadian cities are seemingly oblivious to the fact that in the end, it might harm us as a country. We are not the US. It's fine and dandy that your people are fighting for social change and I'm all for that. Wealth should indeed be shared in a broader bracket. But my people shouldn't have to fight for your social change. All or nothing. If my people are going to Occupy Vancouver so that your people get their message heard louder, my people (hell, yours, too) should also have some riots going for Greece and all that euro bullshit. This is a joke. I do not think they should do that.

The reason we in Canada probably have/need a smaller corporate tax rate (I'm currently trying to find the rate itself) is because we have 1/10th the population, therefore we have (let's assume) 1/10th the corporations. Being that corporations do indeed actually create jobs with some form of wealth in a centralized location (A city, opposed to rural people with rural jobs), we want to entice more of them to come here. The way you do that is to lower taxes. And I can see them lowering it a little more in Canada, with the talk of raising American corprorate tax rates, because then some corporations will surely (I assume is the goal) come north and set up here, and hire Canadians.


I'm not going to break this down, but just because I was looking for it, just a little quip:

American: Federal tax rates on corporate taxable income vary from 15% to 35%.

The basic rate of Part I tax is 38% of your taxable income, 28% after federal tax abatement.

For Canadian-controlled private corporations claiming the small business deduction, the net tax rate is 11%.

For the other corporations, the net tax rate is decreased as follows:

19% effective January 1, 2009
18% effective January 1, 2010
16.5% effective January 1, 2011

Edit: After wikipedia-ing, I found this lovely string of hilarious things.

Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is an ongoing series of demonstrations in New York City based in Zuccotti Park in the Wall Street financial district. The protests were initiated by the Canadian activist group Adbusters.

The Adbusters Media Foundation is a Canadian-based not-for-profit, anti-consumerist, pro-environment[1] organization founded in 1989 by Kalle Lasn and Bill Schmalz in Vancouver, British Columbia.

The foundation describes itself as "a global network of artists, activists, writers, pranksters, students, educators and entrepreneurs who want to advance the new social activist movement of the information age."

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

The reason we in Canada probably have/need a smaller corporate tax rate (I'm currently trying to find the rate itself) is because we have 1/10th the population, therefore we have (let's assume) 1/10th the corporations. Being that corporations do indeed actually create jobs with some form of wealth in a centralized location (A city, opposed to rural people with rural jobs), we want to entice more of them to come here. The way you do that is to lower taxes. And I can see them lowering it a little more in Canada, with the talk of raising American corprorate tax rates, because then some corporations will surely (I assume is the goal) come north and set up here, and hire Canadians.

So why does it make sense for Canada to lower taxes to attract jobs, but when American companies complain about high corporate taxes it's:

And on the other hand, the business owners getting all "well maybe I'll just close my business down and then fire 150 people. Let's see what that does." Very fucking mature, rich Dempublicrats. "If you raise my taxes, I'll quit!".

That is the new American way. Fuck all that "American ingenuity and stick-to-it-ivness". Now it's good 'ol fashioned "American taking your ball and going home."

Logically, it makes sense for Canada to have low taxes to attract businesses. Logically, it makes sense for America to lower taxes to attract businesses. I fail to see why what is good for the goose fails to be good for the gander.